Is the pursuit for gender equality sucking life out of relationships?

Feminism has got its down sides.

Instead of harnessing the different qualities of men and women to energise us, we are striving to make men and women equal.

More women are joining the battle for the CEO’s chair and pursuing dominance in their homes and communities. But in the process they’re becoming more like men. And men are becoming… well, less like men.

Renowned Australian neurosurgeon Charlie Teo believes men and women have different roles “set not only by society but set by physiology”.

“The current trend is for dads to be more hands on. But for all we know it may be proven in a hundred years time that that may be a negative thing for the upbringing of children,” he said recently on Seven’s Sunday Night program.

“They’re there to be protective. A man has to have a good job; he has to do well at school so he can get a good job and support his family. A woman has to be loving and caring,” he said.

As a 29-year-old single woman, many of my peers don’t appreciate my traditionalist views. I’d rather dodge a flying pair of high heels thrown at me in anger than pin a man under a pair of mine.

Feminism has achieved victories for women, but could it be at the expense of femininity, chivalry and attributes of the opposite sex that instinctively attract us to each other?

In his book The Way of the Superior Man, David Deida describes attraction between the masculine and the feminine as “sexual polarity”, referring to varying degrees of strength and vulnerability.

“This force of attraction is the dynamism that often disappears in modern relationships. If you want real passion, you need a ravisher and a ravishee. Otherwise you just have two buddies who decide to rub genitals in bed,” he writes.

Earlier this month, TopGear presenter James May branded the new generation of men as “useless morons” who struggle to master the basic skills once defined as masculine roles.

“The decline of practical skills, some of them very day-to-day, among a generation of British men is very worrying. They can’t put up a shelf, wire a plug, countersink a screw…” he said.

For thousands of years men were providers and protectors and women nurturers. Evolution provided each with the physical and emotional assets to do these jobs well.

Well into the last century the husband provided his family with a home and food and this sole responsibility gave him a sense of power and purpose. And women didn’t feel pressure to justify their existence with a career. They were proud home makers and mothers.

Until feminism.

Now, two thirds of Australian families with dependent children have two incomes. Women are more independent, and consequently they are less dependent on men.

However, mothers now feel more pressure to stay in the workforce either to financially keep up with the surge in double income families or to avoid the negative stigma of being a housewife.

Is it becoming unacceptable in our society for women to rely on men and take pride in abilities defined as gender roles?

Women are also suppressing traditional feminine characteristics like elegance and fragility to take on high power careers and step into male dominated roles.

The Annual Child Care and Workforce Participation Survey found 33 per cent of women who returned to work did so for independence, and 27 per cent for career progression.

However, a British survey of 2000 men revealed one-third of men would prefer to be the sole breadwinning traditional father while another quarter would like to be the main breadwinner with their spouse working only part-time.

Instead, men are sporting aprons, doing their own ironing and pushing trolleys down supermarket aisles – roles that don’t exactly exude manliness.

The survey also found more than half of respondents thought 21st century society was turning men into “waxed and coiffed metrosexuals”, who had to live according to women’s rules.

How does that impact a man’s morale?

My friend Dave told me his wife speaks to him in the same tone as she speaks to their children – and the dog.

“Kids, turn off the TV, Buster outside, Dave, the dishes aren’t going to clean themselves.” Dave feels like he’s surrendered his balls.

When a man is stripped of his sense of purpose, it’s more difficult to satisfy that instinctive hunger for power and purpose. Could this be part of the reason why one in eight Australian men experiences severe depression in their lifetime?

Deida describes it as a “weakened impotent existence”.

“Without a conscious life purpose, a man is totally lost, drifting, adapting to events rather than creating events,” he said.

“The mission is the priority of the masculine, whereas the search for love is the priority of the feminine.”

It seems marriage is becoming less about being dependent on each other and more about living independent lives. But is it making couples happier?

Now, 40 percent of Australian marriages are predicted to end in divorce.

The Relationships Australia Relationships Indicators Survey 2008 revealed stress, work pressures and lack of time to spend with their partner were the top three factors that negatively impacted upon partner relationships.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (2007), 67 per cent of mothers felt pressed for time in families where both parents were working, compared with just 12 per cent in families where one parent was employed.

I don’t think that women should surrender their careers all together. But if we allow men to reclaim some power, we women could do more to embrace our femininity.

Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal?

493 comments

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    • Eric says:

      05:20am | 29/11/10

      Three articles on gender relations - all from a female viewpoint.

      That tells us something about media and society.

    • Liz says:

      07:13am | 29/11/10

      I’d say this one was supportive of men wouldn’t you? Somewhere we’ve lost our way and it’s not working, many men lack committment in relationships, are serialy unfaithful and don’t do their share;women are bossy and overbearing because they can’t get men to take their share.There has to be a better way.

    • Ray says:

      08:06am | 29/11/10

      Liz, you are the epitomy of the problem and stand condemned by your own words. All men’s fault even the ‘bossy and over bearing’ is men’s fault. Get a life.

    • Heath Karl says:

      08:15am | 29/11/10

      What is the examples the idiotic Miss Asher used.
      She asked a neurosurgeon (with the masculine name Charlie Teo) who says ” A man has to have a good job; he has to do well at school so he can get a good job”. So working class men, the most ‘masculine’ male, are not men according to her first source, because they dont have a ‘good job’, didnt do ‘well at school’. NONSENSE!

      Her second example comes from that most manly of professions, a writer. He doesnt say, as you say Liz, that men need commitment and fidelity. He says “If you want real passion, you need a ravisher and a ravishee”

      Next, a television host (who presumably wears makeup on his program) defines masculinity as analogous to home maintainance. “They can’t put up a shelf, wire a plug, countersink a screw”, He laments of the modern man. (Miss Asher doesnt even understand the contradiction between this and her first given example).
      I could go on, and on, and on.  (but I fear the wrath of the moderators).
      Yes Liz, this article is ‘supportive of men’ as all articles against feminism are. The entire crux of their argument is women are naturally inferior. “The mission is the priority of the masculine, whereas the search for love is the priority of the feminine”
      In other words. Men do. Women do Men. It offends every neuron in my masculine brain!

    • James Smith says:

      08:18am | 29/11/10

      Interesting article, well written. The real problem as I see it is that feminism is no longer about achieving equality however being merely an advocacy group to promote women’s wants at the expense of men. It is now no more than a discriminatory, self serving set of ideals that care little about the betterment of society or equality.

      Surely the important thing is that men and women both have ‘choice’.

      As for your friend Dave, I have seen these sorts of relationships and it is painful to watch. In some cases it borders on psycological domestic violence.

    • Rebecca says:

      08:32am | 29/11/10

      If men are really worried, why don’t they write their own op ed pieces instead of women like this one and Bettina Arndt standing up for them? Or could it be that men don’t particularly care and they know they’re on top of the heap already, earning more money than women?

    • Mike says:

      09:03am | 29/11/10

      ... or Liz you could equally suggest that “any men lack committment in relationships” - BECAUSE - their “women are bossy and overbearing “.

      Two way streets everywhere!

    • Markus says:

      09:03am | 29/11/10

      Rebecca, or perhaps just like the multitude of well-written posts against feminism that get conveniently moderated, the much more likely scenario is that they won’t get/aren’t getting published.

    • Ad1 says:

      09:20am | 29/11/10

      Here here Heath Karl! If a man feels his masculinity is challenged by the empowerment of women, how masculine was he in the first place?

    • Shar says:

      09:26am | 29/11/10

      Shame this feminism thing is.  Due to it Miss or Mrs (I’m presuming Ms is out of the question)  Asher actually has a platform to voice her dislike for equality and probably get paid for it. What a load of nonsense.  I will hang my head in shame if my daughter ever ‘bites the hand that feeds her’ as this woman has. I can’t even comment on specifics in the article because the whole thing is so idiotic. Surely it is a joke !!! ?? Josephine - it can’t be her real name (or pic) but surely a moniker for a male writing this article.  You know, like Miles Franklin or George Eliot - so they could get their work published ! Shouldn’t it be in Ralph magazine or something though?

    • Shar says:

      09:31am | 29/11/10

      @Heath and Rebecca - I concur

    • Geoff says:

      09:37am | 29/11/10

      @Rebecca - Because of women like you. Thats the reason, Instead of dealing with the issues you launch into an attack blaming men for everything. If a man wrote the article,  women will scream “sexist pig!!!” and “i bet you don’t get laid” and “you’re just mad that you can’t get a good woman”, “chauvanist” “patriarchy” etc.

    • Shar says:

      10:01am | 29/11/10

      @ Markus.  Did you read the article ?  No need for well written posts against feminism that don’t get published.  The WHOLE article is anti feminist and has been published.  For the record Markus can you explain this one to me.  Why is that when - 1.  men rule the world, 2. earn more than women 3. women are stoned to death in some countries for adultery. 4. 65% of women that die from violence are killed by their own partners 5. 60% of women in Afghanistan want to kill themselves rather than live under the patriachal Taliban rule 6. young girls the world over are still having their clitoris removed and 7. that most women and children bear the name of their husband or father - that you still feel the need to be AGAINST feminism.  Actually any anti feminist can write me the answer to this, becaust to be anti feminist (i.e. against female equality) is just something that I can’t fathom.

    • Kerry says:

      10:30am | 29/11/10

      Step back and look at the bigger picture.  The world is changing, society is changing and demands are far greater than ever before for each individual.  If the men don’t like women taking responsibility for their life and that of their family then why can’t the men toughen up and say, my family has a need, how can I meet that need?  Take charge, use your brain and don’t do stupid things to achieve it…. Meet the idealism of your masculinity, who cares.  Lets face it, there are alot of reasons why women take charge and its because they want the best for their family units living existence, otherwise families slip below the poverty line and you end up with a snowball of financial, health and security issues on your door.  Has anyone ever REALLY noticed how flexible most women are to juggling work, children, family and life versus most mens ability ( I do recognise the exception to both extremes for both genders), women tend to have a better natural knack and are more able to change careers accepting modern education requirements to get there.  The power of success is all but a myth that has been glorified, but the power to provide for your family the best you can, male and female, is a TEAM effort in todays society.  If someone can’t deal with that then I say SUCK IT UP PRINCESS!  Life is too short.

    • Tane says:

      12:56pm | 29/11/10

      So much hate… and undeserved, because the article is just a frank commentary on the current state of gender relations. Feminists have mistakenly aimed, not to be equal to men, but to become identical to men. They leave no room for complementary roles in a relationship, and so kill the natural energy dynamic which Deida writes about. (Great book btw!)

      The truth is that men and women are fundamentally different. That’s not to say they can’t have equally important, equally respected roles in society - but trying to ignore, suppress or eradicate that difference only leads to frustration.

    • Jimmy says:

      12:56pm | 29/11/10

      I think Josephine Asher needs a dictionary to help her write articles. I’m not sure why she’s confusing equality with being identical, two very different concepts.

      This misconception invalidates the whole premise of this the article and turns into nonsense, whatever it’s trying to argue.

      Equality is important, trying to be identical is dumb. Work out the difference Josephine, and re-write the article to address the cultural mores you allude to.

    • Moss says:

      01:07pm | 29/11/10

      Interesting that in rejecting your perspective of feminism, you are being more of a feminist than the majority of people berating you for not following their perspective of feminism.

    • JJ says:

      01:50pm | 29/11/10

      Please James May and Charlie Teo?? These men do not represent all Men! One is a british bafoon the other is a clever surgeon but an alienated non-team player and sexist to boot.  I have worked hard all my life including the 10 years spent raising my kids but that doesn’t mean shit when I get to retirement and have no Superannuation because I wasn’t working (childcare was too expensive/I shouldn’t have to justify my choice).  It also doesn’t explain why if I do the exact same job as a male that I shouldn’t be paid the same money.  My husband is my best friend and equal, if he or I felt any different we would not be a couple.  This is immature journalistic clap trap.  I think you’ve been watching too much Madmen and choose to only see the glamour side. Its still pretty 1950’s out there and things are not made any easier when this type of stuff gets published.  Grow Up!!

    • benno says:

      06:51pm | 29/11/10

      My main problem with this article is “impact” is not a verb. Stop trying to sound cool, kids, “impact” is a noun, “affect” is a verb, and an effect is similar to an impact. If you need to use “impact” when you mean “affect”, just to make it sound stronger, then your writing is weak and you should find a better way to make your point.
      This I find more offensive than the article, which I don’t think has much of a point ... certainly not a new one.

    • lance boyels of bayswater says:

      08:11pm | 29/11/10

      @shar last time i looked we had a female p.m. as far as i know its illegal to pay a woman less for doing the same job as a man . never heard of a woman being stoned to death in this country .dont think cutting off clitorus is all that popular in australia( all the women i have known have one ) . all repeat all the men i know would not dream of raising a fist againest a woman. as for taking there husbands name i didnt know it was the law i always thought it was up to the lady concerned . the usual feminist clap trap and stero types

    • Not a feminist either says:

      04:47am | 30/11/10

      I do what I must to survive. If that means changing the oil in the car, so be it. How am I magically usurping the POWAH of MEN by doing what is necessary? How about the FREEDOM to rid ourselves of ridiculous antiquated notions of masculinity and femininity and be whoever you want to be, fulfill your own expectations, and pick a partner who best matches you and your needs?

      Most of my misery has been caused by others having ridiculous expectations of me that, when I tried to put on that role, made me horribly unhappy. Go talk to my mom, you sound just like her - she’d love it if I got married again and had myself a handyman husband to do all the men’s work. You’d be in good misogynistic company with her and I’m sure she would very much appreciate the validation. You could commiserate about a world gone mad, aka a world that fails to meet your unrealistic expectations….

      If baking cakes, cleaning house and letting the man do the repair work and the breadwinning makes you happy… hey, go find that for yourself. More power to you. That stuff makes me want to stab myself with a fork. I’m a miserable cook. I’m very good at other things, though, including thinking for myself. Maybe the REAL missing piece in all the divorces that happen is that people THINK they should be a certain way and go through the motions, and learn the hard way that it won’t work for them… and then get a divorce and go out to work towards things that do work for them. Label it whatever false label you want to slap on it. The real name for it is “self actualization.” Be a responsible and industrious HUMAN BEING regardless of what you do, and find the things that bring your bliss. Match up with a partner who is engaged in similar activities and aligned with those goals, and hey, that divorce is probably not going to happen again. Especially if you are mutually supportive in helping each other find your bliss.

    • Make Sense says:

      12:59pm | 30/11/10

      If you look at it really closely you will notice people are either for or against. What everyone is missing is that if everyone did the right thing ‘Male’ ‘Female’ ‘Children’ for example things would be at least tolerable. Secondly is everyone forgetting “the Human condition”. We are a self destructive flawed creation. No Nirvana will be arrived at in this short life. So it is time to wake up and think about things that really matter.

    • Realistic woman says:

      03:04pm | 30/11/10

      This article is all about what the author wants, not what women as group or indeed men as a group want. It also completely ignores the gay and bisexual community. Please speak for yourself, not for me, or any other woman. If I have a child, the thing that will force me back to work will NOT be the shame of being a stay at home mother, but rather the need for money - I work in the same industry at the same level as my partner, and we can’t afford to both not to work.

    • make sense says:

      06:20am | 01/12/10

      I have read all the post so far. Nearly everyone posting is screwed up somehow. If you read their post which of course highlights their positions you will immediately see why they are screwed up. Angry, bitter, unforgiving and hateful people with only their agenda on their minds.
      Keep screaming, that will fix everything. Keep fighting and arguing while your life passes you by. There is no dress rehearsal for life, you get one shot at it.
      So find some creditable guidance and follow that. And if you idea’s or those contrived views you so eagerly espouse are flawed, you are screwed right royally and you blew it. No exit stage left and try that scene again.
      Life is short, don’t base it on new trendy opinions derived from the vat of self loathing, look for something tried, tested and found to be true.
      Anything worthwhile cost something and if it is painful at first, so be it. The rewards will far exceed the effort required.
      Hidden treasure is just that, hidden. So don’t be surprised if you need to spend some time finding the truth. It is best to start with people who actually tell the truth, not taint everything they say with the malice of self deceit.
      Lastly read these opinions well they will give you clues as to the end result of holding those opinions. You will see clearly the hate, unforgiving and selfishness mindsets and behaviour they engender.
      Do you really want to tie your one shot at life to views like that.
      And if you are only just starting don’t the road of some of these views, take a good look at where these views took most of these people.
      Take Care….neither the popular, trendy or current can be any type of substitute for truth.

    • Kyri says:

      03:00pm | 01/12/10

      Don’t feed the troll people. This woman is obviously a detached alien that is masquerading as a human woman to study our patience for ignorance.

      There isn’t woman who actually think like this.

      Surely.

      _surely._

    • Mark says:

      07:36pm | 01/12/10

      This is such a poor article. Broad generalisations and naive sentiments. I feel you have very little understanding of gender, sexuality, or human relationships.
      I hope no one paid you to write this, it’s appauling.

    • Tahera says:

      12:08pm | 02/12/10

      Dear all,

      Please read the following with open mind and understanding. We are human beings.
      I agree with Josephine’s article. Confessions of a young anti-feminist-Is the pursuit for gender equality sucking life out of relationships? Instead of harnessing the different qualities of men and women to energise us, we are striving to make men and women equal.

      My opinion is:

      Creation of men and women has some purpose. Purpose to keep this world running “with quality”. Otherwise God can create one gender doing all the jobs. Giving birth, cook and clean etc. But we men and women have separate sets of role to play. So we ourselves can live with bit ease and with peace. And also continue human civilisation beautifully. Not Just quantity wise.

      For me Mother is an Architect of Society! She not only gives birth to a child but she is the first mentor for a child she raises her children so they can be a good citizen for their nation and and caring human beings. When this is missing….. you can see the chaos in the society. people are missing the sensitive part and living selfish lives. Families are breaking down, Many people don’t want to marry and have children in order to enjoy their own lives. Without even realising that if they were not born, how on earth they could have enjoyed this world? Or, are they going to freeze the sperm and egg or have separate set of slave/paid women just for giving birth. What is missing from their mind? or from their heart?

      People are cheating each other. Husbands leaving wife with children with no mercy. No care for children ‘s future. No care for the country. Just ripping each other off. Money, money and power. It is the mother who develops and passes the sense of being responsible and caring and care for others life too. She teaches with practicle examples in childs day today life, and answers child’s query e.g not to lie, dont do this, the reason behind everything. And all these things needs time and patience. But today she is a working mother. Her child is in the day care, sick, with lots of questions, in need of a mother’s hug and want attention. But will not get it. By the time mother brings the child home, she herself too tired to answer or even look at him or play with him for a while. And there begins the hardning of a child’s heart….

      And for doing her important job of a first mentor, she needs a husband’s support. Husband, a father, a role model for his children. Man can face the outside challenges of this world. He is made tough. He faces the traffic congestion, deals with the boss, or deals with his business, deals with financial hardship. And with these actions he teaches his son to care for the family and be selfless, share and care for the family.

      So both men and women have important role to play in human civilisation and then they have their rights respectively. Great power or right comes with great responsibility. In Islam Mother’s right over father is three times higher. Because she bears the pain of carrying child in her womb for nine or more months, with so much of discomfort in walking, sitting, sleeping for whole nine months. Gives birth with so much of pain and immediately after giving birth she smiles with joy, love and affection after seeing her baby. Feeds her child with pain of contractions. Bleeds for forty days or so. Looks after the child and go through so many changes in hormones and even loosing her body shape or birth marks. Some of them can loose their husbands as she cant satisfy them sexually like before. but mother keeps going with her responsibility.
      But when it comes to husband and wife, in Islam, husband has degree respect over the wife as he with hardship, protects his wife, provides for her and cares for her so she can do her very important job that is “quality control human civilisation”.
      Equal right is creating big tensions. When family separates and kids are taken away from the mother, without realising that mother is very important for a child. By taking away this role of a mother, men and women are not doing their assign jobs properly and creating chaos in their respective country and more financial and social and psychological problems for their country. And on top, making our men selfish and irresponsible.  And because of feminism men are also taking good advantage of it and living selfish and carefree life and using women for their pleasure.
      Tahera Chaudhary

    • Ellie says:

      02:14pm | 02/12/10

      @Shar - Yes that is actually Josephine’s real name. I know her personally and it’s her real photo as well. She is an amazing writer and is a good person. I honestly cannot believe the vitriolic comments that people such as yourself are posting here. She has written an article that is though provoking and is obviously something she feels very passionate about. Isn’t it a little low to be taking personal swipes at someone, making false assuptions about their character when all she has done is speak her mind? I think it is fantastic that we live in an era where we can voice opinions freely. Why should she not be able to write about a subject she feels passionate about? Its called freedom of speech! She is not saying we all need to return to the dark ages, simply that men and women are different and that both sexes have strengths and weaknesses. I think this is a biological FACT and not an opinion. Last time I looked I didnt have a penis! Why is it such a crime to want to be a part of a partnership where you rely on each other and compensate for each other? I myself am a married woman who has very traditionalist views. And my relationship with my husband is stronger than most couples we know. There is a bond between us as we value those characteristics that make us different. We dont try to live independently or compete for power. I think everyone is entitled to make their own way in life, but Josephine should not be made to feel like a leper for wanting a man who will respect, love and take care of her. She is capitalising on her femininity and anyone who understands human psychology will know that in a relationship with a masculine man, that is an ideal way to retain excellent polarity. Good on you Josie for having the guts to speak your mind despite

    • Ellie says:

      02:22pm | 02/12/10

      @Keri - Yes there are women who actually think like this! I am one of them and I am not alone! There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting this life for oneself. Who are you to be judge, jury and executioner? Take a look at society around you… in case you hadn’t noticed, something is really wrong, particularly with the young of today. I’m not saying that we should all quit our jobs and take baking classes, but what is wrong with having a traditional view of relationships?

    • Jayke says:

      11:25am | 14/12/10

      Really?? This article is absolute hodwash.

      What evidence do you have that “traditional” family roles, are actually traditional and in what culture.

      From a sociological perspective this is an incredibly poorly written article.

      Sexism masked us science…

      Thank god people as daft as this article writer are in declione and are less in society, that educated, feminist women of character. Who recognise their right to make their own choices and not have a man tell them whats what or an uneducated fool spouting this crap and being listened too.

    • Afar says:

      09:28am | 18/12/10

      I wonder how anti-feminist Ms. Asher would be if she couldn’t go to school or work or express her opinion. I’m sure she’s wear the badge “feminist” rather quickly if it meant retaining her pedigree.

    • Afar says:

      09:28am | 18/12/10

      I wonder how anti-feminist Ms. Asher would be if she couldn’t go to school or work or express her opinion. I’m sure she’s wear the badge “feminist” rather quickly if it meant retaining her pedigree.

    • paul says:

      08:14pm | 20/03/11

      @Rebbecca
      Men and women or (Wimmim) get paid the same rate for the same position.  Show me one example were this is not true ? Women EARN less on average because they choose to, Not because there oppressed.  Take responsibility for your outcomes and stop playing the victim.
      The only thing holding you back is you, go out there and get what you want.
      Men write plenty of articles reg gender relations but nobody has the god dam balls to publish them.
      The currently unpopular nature of such articles is why you don’t find many being published together with the fear of being shot down and flamed by femanazi gangsters for doing so.

    • Naomi says:

      01:27pm | 02/04/12

      So if men are meant to be “masculine” and women are meant to be “feminine”, where do homosexuals fit in? I’m sorry, but this stinks of homophobia, as well as good old ignorance. Gender is not black and white. Every person defines their own gender and saying that men are supposed to scratch themselves and fix shelves is a mockery to both men and women.

      If feminists hadn’t fought for equality, you would’ve even have the right to write this patronizing article. Why don’t you give back your job to the man you shafted it to get and get back in the kitchen where you obviously feel you belong?

    • Jonathan says:

      12:02pm | 04/05/12

      Wow look at all you dirty feminists, she’s raising REALLY GOOD arguments and you’re taking a shit all over her.  I agree with a lot of what she says, I don’t really think men are better than women in any way, but they’re certainly not below them.  We’re designed for separate roles, it’s as simple as that, you don’t even need to bring up the ‘who’s better’ argument, it’s childish.  Thank you Josephine Asher for going against the flow, it’s nice to see someone still cares.

    • No Balls says:

      09:06am | 06/06/12

      “Kids, turn off the TV, Buster outside, Dave, the dishes aren’t going to clean themselves.” No Balls feels like he’s surrendered his balls.

      S#*t thats me!!!

    • Jerry says:

      04:08pm | 06/06/12

      The problem with this article is its written by a WOMAN. Men know they are the real source of ALL POWER. When women pretend that they are in control of any sector of society they are ignoring what is truly going on. The truth is that all modern conveniences are provided by the brawn and power of the male workforce and the male brain to create mechanical devices, build skyscrapers, planes, rockets, cars, roads, bridges… what would the world look like if females truly dominated it ? LOL.. let’s not go there.  To call us ‘equals’ is ABSURD and flies in the face of true literal reality. Whenever this is a Tsunami or natural disaster where do all the fucking feminists go ? Kablam..they implode. Disappear. It is MEN who pluck the damn females out of the water… and save their necks. As a masculinist and male chauvanist who reluctantly decided to say FUCK YOU to the fembots and female gender, after 30 years of their insane drivel, its high time men just stick it to women for good, and force them back in their places. THey live on our backs.. literally. They are protected by MEN. They have a place in society at all because of men. They have lost their place and feminism is a ruse.. women are going to reap what they have sewn, and its actually females who are becoming angry, violent and depressed now.. not the males. Men know they can stick it to women at any point.. because baby, when we say DONE, its DONE. What can you do when we physically overpower you in ever domain and just tell you that you CAN"T. If you’re attacking an entire gender you’re talking about 3 billion of the more powerful sex… you really want war with us ? SEriously. Women have got to get their asses kicked once in a while in order to truly wake the fuck up and have some respect. Thousands of years of orderly societies run by men are not going to be undone in 50 years by some Zionist freaks funding women’s whimsical nonsense. It has just driven everyone crazy. Now its ‘whoredome’ not ‘equality’. Now women who stole everything without permission, want men to “man up” and take it back ! What is the problem with the female gender ? Well duh.. its not a stable one. When you let women have control they destroy everyone around them..the kids, the family.. eachother and especially men. This is simply a dirty nasty Zionist trick to impose a police state and women are enabling it to happen. The cure is for all men to unite, and ignore women, and to take back by force, their domain. Look the Muslims don’t put up with that crap, nor should men in Western Society. I believe the imminent backlash that is brewing will be so swift and harsh that women will realize they are truly choosing between their ‘career’ and a life of misery.. and one of happiness with a man. It is truly up to MEN to decide. We need not consult with females at all. Its our way or the highway.. because you don’t build the god damn highways bitches.. or the damn cars you drive. You likely never pumped your own gas. Think next time you walk outside your door, how men have created literally everything around you, every modern convenience. Women’s only creation is “DRAMA” .. crazy bitches. Fuck em. Literaly..

    • Against the Man says:

      05:29am | 29/11/10

      Feminist/females look at Gillard your 1st childless, husbandless, fake female PM, be proud of her non achivements.

    • Reslemo says:

      09:07am | 29/11/10

      Yes, because having a husband and children are the only important achievements a women can make.

    • Shar says:

      09:12am | 29/11/10

      You spout as much nonsense as the anti feminist who wrote this article.  Any achievement is based upon one’s goal.  If you choose to be PM and get there then consider your achievement realised. If my daughter were to be PM I would be proud of her whether she has children, husband or not.  Having children and a husband will not be the premise by which I judge her achievements.

    • Angry Mango says:

      09:41am | 29/11/10

      What does being childless and unmarried have to do with non achievement?
      Maybe she doesn’t want children. Maybe she isn’t so insecure that she needs a ring on her finger to feel complete. Maybe these were never her goals in life… Maybe not, I don’t know her and neither do you… this is just taking a swipe at her.
      If you’re a liberal then so be it and you’ll hate however heads the labor party, but please work out what it is you don’t like about her stop confusing gender issues with political ones..

    • Ryan says:

      10:14am | 29/11/10

      @Against the Man: and a natural born LIAR and backstabber, perfect example of a feminist!

    • Dave says:

      10:16am | 29/11/10

      @Angry
      Because there is nothing like someone with out the life experiences of children deciding what is best for families with children.

    • john the baby boomer says:

      10:25am | 29/11/10

      My father worked and my mother took care of the home and the seven children. The normal family situation at the time.  I got married and both myself and my wife had to work inorder to raise our three children and pay a mortgage. Now it seems my children have gotten married and not only had to work but do excessive overtime inorder to raise their one child. Soon they are to divorce. Doesn’t seem to me that things are getting better between men and women or children and marraige. In the past women never neede to work to raise a family, these days its a must, and with a 40% divorce rate its the children who seem to be suffering. Well done you womans libbers you really have won (Not)

    • Kika says:

      11:24am | 29/11/10

      @Johnthebabyboomer - it’s not just women’s lib that have done this. Worklife has changed for everyone. We have all tried to compete with the Asian markets and the American free labour market for so long that we have adopted their bad habits of working ridiculous hours just to make sure our employer’s are happy with our work output. It’s crazy.  Our culture as a whole has suffered because the world has changed. Everyone has suffered. To say it’s only because of women’s lib is wrong. The Japanese have always had a male dominated workplace and have always had a low birth rate. It takes 2 to make babies - not just women.

    • KH says:

      12:01pm | 29/11/10

      Dave - so the PM isn’t qualified to make decisions for the disabled either.  Or indigenous people.  Or rural people - well you know, she doesn’t have those experiences.  What a load of tosh…...No politician who ever lived can be truly representative of absolutely everyone - that is ridiculous.  And just by the way, given the large number of older people, and single people, and young people - why do only families with children at home deserve attention?  And don’t respond with some nonsense about how they are providing for the future - rubbish - the people here now are just as instrumental in the future outcomes as anyone who will be present in it.  Whatver we leave them is what they will inherit - good and bad.  The government is supposed to represent everyone - not just one group.  Thats why the ‘government’ isn’t just one person, because one person can’t be everyone.

    • Against the Man says:

      04:07pm | 29/11/10

      Looks like I hit a nerve with my comments, sorry ALP loonies the truth hurts and it looks like you can’t handle the truth. Gillard has a legacy of shame nothing will save her from having a sh#$ place in Australian political history. This is the best the ALP can produce?

    • Seano says:

      06:19pm | 29/11/10

      You’re a class act. I’m guessing the only person you could get a date with would be Eric.

    • Mr Bob says:

      10:13am | 30/11/10

      Yes, ATM this is the best the ALP can produce. Teach your kids to back stab their way to the top, hardwork and loyality are for suckers smile

    • Seano says:

      05:45pm | 30/11/10

      I’m sure Turnbull and Nelson agree with you Mr Bob.

    • jim morris says:

      06:06am | 29/11/10

      I wrote a similar article 15 years agi whle at uni and for it was made a target for a ‘whispering poison’ campaign organised at a women’s conference on campus.
      These days the real issues are the way the feminist mafia has subverted the legal system and created an underclass of voiceless poverty-stricken males. They are real issues not being acknowledged or addressed. The tizz about women being married to vibrators and men wanking on the internet is now just a side issue.

    • Jessie says:

      09:35am | 01/12/10

      I also pointed this out when I was at uni - during a cultural studies tutorial, I proudly declared that ‘feminism is a load of shit’. Apparently, I broke my tutor’s heart.

      Old school bra-burning feminism wasn’t a load of shit. It was what women at the time needed - they needed respect as humans, fairness in treatment, not equality and to be seen the same as men. It is the feminism of today that is a load of shit - why do we need equality? Men and women are essentially different creatures - it’s like comparing rosellas to lorikeets. Very similar, but not the same.

      We should be about fairness, not equality.

    • Ray Graham says:

      06:25am | 29/11/10

      Josephine your second last penultimate para gives it all away, ‘allow men to regain some power’. So you have declared the ideology of feminism with a condescending ‘we’ll let ‘em’.

      Thing is Josephine the culture of Australian women is completely embedded in the manner you have described that it is now women’s nature. My wife speaks to me as you describe and does it naturally. I don’t cop it and it leads to a very unhappy relationship. Men nearly have to appologise for their own opinion and the simplest thing is to agree or there’s a fight. Unfortunately for strong men of self that is not possible.  That of course can be re-labelled as domestic abuse, when the domestic abuse is the initial female attitude.

      I’ll never abrogate my male characteristics. It makles life tough and many females can’t hack it. Tough titties girls.

      You are right chivalry, respect and love are gone. Women have destroyed marriage and yet still want to have their big day. Then proceed to castrate their honourable husband through the family court. Followed by a cougar experience and then some other poor sucker to repeat the dose. Custody and the kids? Well who cares as long as the ‘mother’ firstly gets the assets and then the kids. Don’t let anyone tell you they worry about the kids more than the money.

      Actually women and feminism engnder nothing but contempt towards women. Well deserved.

      Unfortunately women have got hold of the power brokers who are the makers of the legislation that provides them with power, a saloon passage through life, and for example an option to kill their husband through ‘manufactured ’ battered wife syndrome, where tyhey get 100% oif the assets, exact the ultimate revenge, and destroy the evisence by killing the husban who finds it difficult to defend himself from the grave. The legislation? Well try the aforesaid, the Family Law Act, Discrimination (Against Women Act, maternity leave, baby bonus, workplace harrassment, Ministries for women, or simply ‘Hot Shots’ performing at the local club where you take your kids for tea. Great example. You take the kids home after dinner, wife goes to show and has the option of after show desserts.

      Aussie women really are an unattractive package.

    • Megan Jane Symes - Adelaide says:

      08:22am | 29/11/10

      Very anti female!  Suppose you would love to see all women poor, alone, homeless, jobless - all of them, while the men have all the money, jobs, homes, whores galore, roots for free, etc etc etc?

    • Heath Karl says:

      08:23am | 29/11/10

      Wife tells you to do the dishes and that makes you feel like less of a man.

      What a manly complaint. Whatever happened to a stiff upper lip?
      Nah, its just more manly to whinge about women who take it all and “still want to have their big day”.

      When my great Grandfather was not struggling with drought, poverty and war, he was complaining about that very thing!

    • Jamie D says:

      08:42am | 29/11/10

      Very good point Ray and I am sorry to hear your situation. It just seems culturely it is accepted for men to be treated as second class citizens and not complain about it.

    • Suzy says:

      08:57am | 29/11/10

      This is sexism!!!

    • Josh Rogan says:

      09:35am | 29/11/10

      I agree wholeheartedly, good to see someone theres speak up in an atmosphere where men would get their heads bitten off. Good on ya

    • Julia says:

      09:59am | 29/11/10

      I am sorry for the relationship you have obviously been through but not all women are not like that. Men and women can coexist - its about respect, respect hasn’t gone - its just no longer demanded, its too hard. Why does a man allow a women to speak to him like a dog, because they dont want a fight, no wonder they have lost respect..!

    • Tika says:

      10:07am | 29/11/10

      Why are you with your wife if you are so unhappy? Why do you allow her to speak to you so? You say “I’ll never abrogate my male characteristics. It makles life tough…” How does being masculine in any way make life tough? I don’t think your rant sounds very masculine at all. A real man would stand up for himself.

      I’m not sure feminism is to blame. If she were contributing equally to the relationship, you wouldn’t mind leaving her because if she took half - well, it would have been her own half anyway.

      I once left a relationship with my ex’s 20K debt for a car in his name. I would pay ten times that for my freedom again if I needed to. I feel very sorry for your bitterness and resentment.

    • PaulB says:

      01:40pm | 29/11/10

      No, it would just be nice to once in a while meet an Aussie woman who doesn’t think its all about her.

    • Charlotte says:

      03:44pm | 30/11/10

      It seems to be quite difficult for most men, yourself included, to realise that many of the pieces of legislation and societal changes you mentioned have been enacted to either bring women’s rights into line with men, or to help them out when societal pressure/etc results in them being seriously disadvantaged.  The only unattractive thing here is a guy who can’t seem to let go of that power and privilege.

      You may keep your manly ways - that’s *fine*. But ‘tough titties’ goes both ways - if your wife speaks to your in a way you don’t like, you can deal with it, or leave. It’s not only men who have the right to say ‘I am how I am’.  I’m sad for you that you are currently stuck in an unhappy relationship but that doesn’t mean that you can speak for how all women do or ought to a.
      Battered wife syndrome is hard enough to prove in the courts that more often than not, a legitimate history of domestic violence cannot be considered by the court. Women still lose out big time on this one. Especially since the laws of provocation, used for centuries as a defense by husbands who killed their wives, are inherently masculine: any psychiatrist will tell you that most women do not act in the fast-paced way that the defense requires, to be successful. The law is currently tipped in favour of men on this one.

      Maternity leave? Given that most families now rely on the income of both parents, it’s actually a payment that supports families, not women exclusively. Even if it did, do you not think that the incredibly physical and emotional energy required to bring a child into the world is worthy of some recognition?
      Legislation and Court decisions regarding family law have taken on a decided more equal stance, with respect to both parent’s rights, since 2006, when John Howard enacted legislation that encouraged shared care as the preferred situation.  Men are slowly getting a better deal in these situation. However, yes, in cases when the wife/female partner is awarded full custody of the kids, she also gets a heavier share of the martial assets because she’s going to have to deal with most costs, as she will have the most direct time and care with the kids.  This isn’t sexist as much as logical.

      Some feminists are angry and man-hating, absolutely. Just as some men are angry and women-hating (no finger pointing here). However, true feminism was about making the sexes equal. Femininity was no more or less valuable than masculinity. If you can’t live with that idea, then, as you aptly put it, tough titties, because the world is moving towards that and you’re soon to be outdated.

    • Kate says:

      06:28am | 29/11/10

      Very short answer: no.

    • BK says:

      06:42am | 29/11/10

      Specific criticisms of some of the things done in the name of feminism is markedly different to challenging all of the progress made because of feminism. Would anyone want to wind the clock back?

    • CABAL says:

      11:40am | 29/11/10

      YES We Would

    • Happy says:

      10:07pm | 01/12/10

      I agree. Theres a big difference between feminism and feminazis. feminism also benefits men when you consider that if their partner is working, they also benefit from them bringing home equal pay. We have a deal at our house. I don’t change the oil in the car and he doesnt touch my washing machine. We both like things done properly!

    • ENOUGH! says:

      06:46am | 29/11/10

      This article backs up what I have been saying for years. This equality garbage should be put out with the next garbage pick up. Men & women were meant to be different NOT equal. Equal is a feminazi desire, a skewed vision, a game.
      The downfall of society can be placed fair and square with this shifting of our roles. Bring men back to the frontline to do what they do best. Lead the family, a strength that gives a feeling of safety, avenues of learning, of coping. Get the kids back under control as opposed to the emotional, out of control wrecks they have become due to feminisation/emotional decision making.
      Guys, it is time to reclaim your balls!

    • Heath Karl says:

      07:51am | 29/11/10

      Men are the best!

    • Penster says:

      08:22am | 29/11/10

      Can’t we be different AND equal? Like apples and pears.

    • Jane Smith says:

      08:26am | 29/11/10

      Yeah, lets have women poor, alone, in dead end jobs doing all the crap work men will not do, have women homeless and jobless too.

      Let men have all the power, the money, the good jobs, the top income, lots of hookers, strippers, whores, roots for free - let them use women up then trash them, then move onto the next.  Yeah, great idea.  Why did I not think of it first?  Wake up you morons - men have all the power - look at the brothels that are everywhere today!  They go there and are married or have a girlfriend.  They are pure evil.

    • Mr GG says:

      09:48am | 29/11/10

      @Jane Smith.
      No that is Equality, Your Sisters use their gifts to take the average man’s daily wage in a hour of lying on their backs.
      There were less Brothels Before because Women now have a choice and Women Choose to Sell their bodies because it is easier and pays better then real work.
      And how do you use someone up? that is just retarded, people aren’t objects, The fact the a large amount of Women find the same Asshole sort of Guy attractive even though only 10% of males fit that image is their own fault 90% of males don’t like it. And just so you know your more than welcome to Pay me For Sex since you seem to think that makes men so powerful.
      the Stats were something like 70% find 70% of women attractive will 70% of women find only 10% of men attractive. So power is with Women. Although True Power is with the Ultra Rich and has nothing to do with Gender and Women need to stop saying men have power when women have more power than all but the top 1% of ultra rich men.

    • DeanR says:

      10:19am | 29/11/10

      Penster, exactly. Men and women should be equal under law but when it comes to society, men and women are simply different.

      I have chosen my future wife because she is the most loving, caring and understanding person that I have ever met. When I come home from work after a hard and stressful day, she is always there for me.

      Even though young, we both fill the traditional gender roles. Nether of us have any intention for her to work full time once we have kids. 

      Men and Women have filled the traditional gender rolls for a very good reason. A million years of social evolution have defined it to be the best method to raise healthy and strong children.

      Read the book “Its not you, its Biology”. It is a fantastic book!

    • Shane says:

      10:53am | 29/11/10

      @Jane Smith:  Men have all the power because there are brothels…  really?  What’s your obsession with sex?  And why is it relevant to this article or to ENOUGH!‘s comment?

      I truly hope that this is some type of satire that I’m not quite getting.  If not, please realise that you’re ranting and not adding to the conversation in the slightest.

    • Brett says:

      11:27am | 29/11/10

      So Jane Smith is a Lesbian feminist without a brain… established.

      Men and women are different, its only natural. Feminism was great in its day, got women the vote, job oppurtunities, equal pay, even went a little overboard with maternity leave (which doens’t actually help women get jobs at equal pay… do the math). So feminism was great and necessary, it achieved all its initial goals and 99% of men thought it was all good, a change, but all good.

      Then feminism decided they wanted to be the DOMINANT sex and reclaim reparitions for their past suffering by subjugating men… its no longer about equality, its about superiority. Its gone to the point that banning men from women only parties, or having womens only gyms and clubs is not only acceptable but endorsed by the anti discirmination boards. Isn’t this the epitomy of sexism?

      I’m all for equality in rights, rule for one, rule for all. But also realise we are different. Men are stronger, women have higher emotional IQ, women have babies, men are more logical (not some of these are only majority cases, women having babies is fact, as is men being stronger in almost all cases). This is what it is, get over it.

      Feminism, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

    • Man are mars women from venus.... SO DEAL WITH IT! says:

      01:57pm | 29/11/10

      i would partly agree with this one. men and women are NOT equal… we ARE different. and why should we be? all people are created equal in the eyes of the law and should be treated accordingly in terms of fundamental human rights.  but why can we not accept that by design men are “hunters” and women are “gatherers”?  there is no shame in that. I equate the rise in male depression and youth suicide as being related to the rise in broken marriages.  I don’t think we can blame feminism solely for that. however what feminism did do was challenge the unfair bias towards men in terms of independance, equal pay for equal work etc.
      so while women have gained what could be argued as their fundamental human rights, men have lost some (or a lot) of their unfair advantage imposed by traditional and religiously guided patriarchal culture.
      I am a man and I fully support equality among all people regardless of age, sex, religion etc.  The problem occurs when any minority or previously downtrodden person/group acheives equality and/or power but then lets the pendulum swing too far.  This can also bee seen in the ridiculous “political correctness” and the litigious nature of our society today.

    • No such thing as a free lunch says:

      04:09pm | 29/11/10

      Lay off picking on Jane Smith.  She said we should have roots for free.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      11:57am | 16/12/10

      Brett says:

      11:27am | 29/11/10

      So Jane Smith is a Lesbian feminist without a brain… established.

      HAHAHAH smile

    • Christine Longman says:

      06:52am | 29/11/10

      I’m not sure your friend Dave’s wife is a feminist - just a woman who has no manners (alas not an unusual trait in either sex these days).

    • irene says:

      07:49am | 29/11/10

      well said Christine!

    • Carz says:

      07:12am | 29/11/10

      On the whole I would like to say, what a crock. True feminism is about being equal. It means that both sexes should have the same rights, responsibilities and opportunities. It is not about sinking the stilleto heels into the scrotum of every male on the planet.

      You last point about women, domestic violence and the Family Law system shows nothing but complete ignorance, and worse, apathy about a real issue. ‘Manufactured battered wisfe syndrom’? Have you ever met a victim of domestic violence, ever spoken to the professionals who deal with them on a daily basis? Obviously not. And it is equally obvious that you have never had dealings with the Family Law system. I hope it remains that way.

      I wish you luck in your life and hope that some day soon you find a lord and master who will provide for you to stay at home and finance your every whim. Don’t forget to pinch your cheeks to give them a rosy glow when you hear the car pull into the driveway each night, or to lie back and think of England when he invokes his “male privledge” regardless of your mood or wellbeing.

    • Evie Jaye says:

      08:21am | 29/11/10

      Ive got to figure true feminism should be about choice not equality?

    • tanya says:

      08:53am | 29/11/10

      Well said, Carz. I couldn’t agree more.

      While over-the-top policitically correct feminism can do harm, and women and men ARE different - anyone who says they are not EQUAL is really no better than the people who made laws forbidding women to own property or to vote.

    • hired goon says:

      09:03am | 29/11/10

      “True feminism is about being equal.”

      In feminism, one gender is more equal than the other.

      Female cries for equality are invoked only when a woman wants something to work to her advantage. If it is the other way around, and a male makes reference to a situation within which women hold an advantage, his claims are invariably dismissed by women. Usually, he is insulted and his masculinity question.

      The manner in which feminists speak the language of equality whilst they attempt to manipulate, berate and demean men is totally transparent. And boring.

    • Matt says:

      09:15am | 29/11/10

      I think you missed the whole point of this article, domestic violence is a whole different issue and has no revelevance to this article.  your comments show that you don’t understand this article at all, your comments show that you must have some emotional hatred for men. I don’t think the editor needs any of your luck it seems like she has the foundation to build a healthy natural relationship with a male, I think it’s her that should be wishing you good luck!

    • Polly says:

      09:32am | 29/11/10

      Evie, feminism is about equality of opportunity in order to make a choice. That is, where men and women are in an equal position in order to make choices about their lives on equal footing with one another.

      The amount of generalisations and ignorance about the purpose of feminism in these comments is truly astounding.

    • Geoff says:

      09:56am | 29/11/10

      I fail to see how “FEM"inism can be about equality. Even by name. Carz what about the two women who drugged their husbands and murdered them (one US one AUS both with shotguns) in cold blood whilst the men slept? They didn’t even receive a conviction.

    • MK says:

      11:57am | 29/11/10

      Feminism is about bout being equal?....
      Think about it
      Femin-ism
      Femin-
      ism

      Egalitarianism is about equality

    • xsy says:

      01:52pm | 29/11/10

      I’ll agree with Carz - WHAT A CROCK.  Men work & women stay at home…oh yeah, except both my grandmothers & my mother all worked. And what about cooks, maids, nannies, dairymaids, If you want a bit of history read ‘Tess of the D’Urbavilles’.  About women making rope, wet in freezing weather, or harvesting the crop. PEOPLE should do what they are best suited for, regardless of their genitals.

    • Joan says:

      07:19am | 29/11/10

      Once the tattoo was the symbol of toughness of wharfies, crims, sailors and bikies. ... today women are more likely to sport tattoo than the average male and foul f…. swearing can spill from their mouth no matter where they are. Meanwhile the men pore over latest Master Chef recipe and are seen at markets selecting choice fresh produce for recipe, pushing stroller.  Give me elegant,slinky   female and a chunky, hunky.  Don Draper any day.

    • bec says:

      08:03am | 29/11/10

      Give me correct punctuation. Oxford English Dictionary any day!

    • Viola says:

      07:24am | 29/11/10

      I don’t think men should have more power, but yes we are meant to be different and that’s the whole fun of it. I don’t understand how honoring each others weakness and strengths and turning them into complimentary aspects of being in a relationship (be it at home or work), has become to mean not being equal.

      It doesn’t mean packing in careers and staying at home under the thumb, just why can’t we honor each others differences and have healthy respect of that from both males and females with consideration of each other?

    • Juliet Delta says:

      03:00pm | 29/11/10

      Most intelligent comment so far Viola!

      I agree with every word…embrace our differences. Why would we want to become cut copies of our partner? Differences are what make us work so well together…well most of the time smile

    • Listvianka says:

      07:27am | 29/11/10

      Arthur Tunstall summed it up when he said “what do women want to prove? That they’re men?”

    • Heath Karl says:

      08:38am | 29/11/10

      Read the comments here. A woman writes an anti-feminist article, and in response we see a veritable explosion of men writing with hurried desperation trying to prove that very same thing.

      Arthur Tunstall is right on one point. Men rule this world and men love men. So what is left for a woman to do, but to be that very thing that men adore so much?

    • Rachel says:

      07:38am | 29/11/10

      Load of shite. I’ve tried the house-wife, let-the-hubby-pay-all-the-bills, no career gig - staying at home with my four lovely children and looking after the house. I got depressed, it’s a dreary job when the kids are at school and you’re just cleaning house all day. I love being on call 24 hours for my children, I love wearing dresses and lace and I dont like to be dominating but I do like getting an education, I like earning my own money and my children respect me for it. Nothing to do with feminism. Im not trapped in a situation that Im not happy in, Im enjoying my life now. You are 29, single with a career .. try being 21 with a young family and no career, no income and no independance. It is a terrible feeling if things go wrong in your marriage, believe me—you are out on the street with little children and no way of earning money. Thank goodness our grandmothers fought for equality.

    • Markus says:

      09:13am | 29/11/10

      Nobody cleans the house all day every day. The entire process seriously takes up about 3hrs/week.
      What was stopping you taking up further education while the kids were at school? University by correspondence, TAFE, or even just standard reading?

      Through all the whinging by women of the dreariness and depression of being ‘forced’ to be a housewife, the men I know who got a chance to be the main carer for their kid absolutely loved it.
      They got to spend more time raising their children and finally had the spare time to do what they wanted - working out, learning guitar, building that tool shed they always wanted etc etc.

      Perhaps the women complaining of being bored in the role just need to expand their imagination a little?

    • Frustrated says:

      10:29am | 29/11/10

      Housework all day!  What bull…..  I have a 2year old and a 4month old and work from home part time and study as well as look after the house and cook.  Yes looking after the kids can get quite draining and sometimes I would much rather be going to the workplace but come on, get a grip.  I don’t think that many men demand there women to stay at home there whole marriage and there is a thing called multitasking.  We women are supposed to be good at it, remember.  Winging women is not attractive at all and quite frustrating to those of us who love being at home doing the nurturing things that we have been created to do.  But then again a lot of us have the capacity to plan for the future whilst raising children.  Also, remember you make your own bed, so lie in it.

    • Sazz says:

      07:39am | 29/11/10

      A man can help around the house without losing his manliness!! So what if a man does his own ironing and does the shopping?! My man does both but can still fix a car, put up a shelf and do all sorts of activities you would label “manly”. A relationship is supposed to be a partnership and should be about whatever works best for the couple - not about labels which society puts on you….you’re a women therefore you must be emotional and unable to think logically?! Please, not every man and woman conform to these steretypes. If a man is “depressed” because he has lost his masculinity, I would say that’s his fault for not standing up for himself, not societys fault for letting his wife work and have equal rights.

      Seriously go back to the dark ages where you belong.

    • bec says:

      08:05am | 29/11/10

      I’d say that if a dude bases his personality and identity solely on his masculinity, than he mustn’t have any merits or personal attributes to actually make him a decent person. Only the soulless base their identity on things they can’t ultimately change.

    • Sez says:

      12:28pm | 29/11/10

      Well said, Sazz.
      My husband is the same - a sparky by trade, who can sew on his own buttons and iron his own clothes.
      Where did he learn these feminine abilities?
      The army.  Is that mascukine enough for you, Josephine?

    • jess says:

      12:44pm | 29/11/10

      Absoutley agree. Labels and stereotypes don’t help anyone. Yes you need a ying and a yang, a soft and a hard to create a beneficial partnership. But it doesn’t matter which is which!
      My husband is kind, loving,  nurturing and paitient and honestly I’m not particularly those things. He WANTS to stay home with our children and will be fantastic at it (he already prefers to cook and do the dishes). I WANT to go back to work because I enjoy it and I make slightly more money.
      He is no less of a man and I am no less of a woman, despite the looks ppl give us about our (very happy) arrangement.

    • Andrew says:

      07:41am | 29/11/10

      The highest happiness is found neither in “traditional” roles, nor in “feminist”-defined roles, but in emotional independence from one’s environment and circumstances.

    • Sam says:

      09:43am | 29/11/10

      Hear hear! I’m sick of the whole of society blaming others for where they are at and their level of happiness. We all make our own decisions and we are all different, with different hopes and desires.

    • Tika says:

      09:50am | 29/11/10

      Very well put.

    • Aman says:

      07:50am | 29/11/10

      The greatest thing feminism delivered to me was not having to buy the cow.

      I’m a very fit male in my 30s earning 6 figures. I’m free and active. I do what I want when I want. I can fix things, too.

      But I don’t have to be shackled to a nagging bore that withholds sex to get what she wants and no longer does the cooking.

      Women will realise that they can’t rely on their salary from being the office admin girl but I won’t be interested in saving them. My money is for me. There is no longer the social compulsion to get married.

      Feminism has benefited me greatly. But it has ruined society.

    • Heath Karl says:

      08:31am | 29/11/10

      You sound like a brilliant catch. I cannot understand how you made it to your 30s without settling down. There must be something wrong with women, or society, or both. Or better, something wrong with women that caused something very wrong with society. Thats basically what you said, right?

    • no nameo says:

      08:33am | 29/11/10

      You sound evil - they very ahole that no women would want to be with ever.  Stick to your aids filled whores.  You sound like an ughly ahole.

    • V says:

      09:12am | 29/11/10

      That’s wonderful for you but will being single in your 60’s still be so much fun? Sooner or later you will realise that you’re getting old, you’re lonely and everyone else is off with their own families and doesn’t have time for you. Women will pay you no attention and no one will care when you have great news to share or it’s your b-day. Very sad not to have a special person in your life/ a best friend/ a lover. I’m a woman, I was single for a long time and wanted to be independent and earn my own money. I did it - it got old very quickly. I realised that being in a relationship does not take anything away from who you are, in fact if you’re with the right person it can even make you better. There is no better feeling in the world that having someone special to share life with (the good and bad), look after and love. This isn’t old school - just human nature. But you can fight it all you want. Good luck to you.

    • Dave says:

      09:24am | 29/11/10

      haha, what a legend…

      but seriously… most Australian women suck these days, you’re all super boring and don’t have any life experience to quantify your judgements. Just your “university” degree.

      Heads up - I went to university, and it’s bullshit. You don’t learn anything about life there.

      Guys, if you like awesome women, date backpackers! or just go to a foreign country. Biologically you should be more attracted to them anyway.

      And I don’t care what any of you women say in response…

      because… well… you’re women.

    • Rossco says:

      09:41am | 29/11/10

      Aman sounds like a wanker, probably attracts heaps of girls no doubt.

    • Zaf says:

      09:48am | 29/11/10

      Good for you, Aman!  But if you think your Mummyji and Daddyji aren’t going to get you hitched pretty soon….

    • Julia says:

      10:08am | 29/11/10

      Frankly I think you need a counsellor, not a wife.

    • Valerie says:

      10:26am | 29/11/10

      Aman, I would like to thank you on behalf of all women for remaining single and not putting some poor “nagging old bore” through a life of misery being your wife. Same goes for Ray Graham up there.

      Honestly, some of you men are so full of bitterness and loathing that I wonder how you get up in the morning and leave the house.  How about a little positivity, how about trying to see the good in other people.  It might make your lives a little less miserable.

      My husband and I are two very different people.  He is definitely a “manly man”, he has a great job, can fix things around the house but isn’t afraid to help with the chores including cooking.  We both have jobs, but when it comes time to have children, I will hopefully be taking a year off and yes, relying on him financially during that time.  But I will be more than happy to do that and so will he.

    • Bill says:

      11:23am | 29/11/10

      Listen to you all sledging Aman..He’s right! I’m doing the same as Aman after the mother of my kids decided she needed to go and become her own person (but with another guy?). Woman are confused in their new role and it IS IN FACT WRECKING SOCIETY..I’m loving it! No comitment (I tried that and my ex destroyed it)...different woman all the time….Many, many, many friends, colegues and aquaintances are doing the same…The blah blah blah about lonely at 60 means nothing..I’ll simply stay with one in about ten or fifteen years….I’d far rather be lonely at 60 than chewed up and spat out by another woman and court system…Good luck to all you women. I hope you’ve achieved what you set out to do…YOU HAVE CREATED THIS…

    • Kika says:

      11:35am | 29/11/10

      @Dave - Are you serious? Backpackers. Yeah. Sure. They seem nice on their little downunder summer holiday. Have you been to Europe at all? Australia is about 100 years behind them when it comes to women’s lib. Things are very different there. It’s quite common for men there to take the women’s role in a relationship to 100% of the time, and women are likely to be tradies, working full time supporting their husband and babies. It’s true. If you don’t like it, get over it. Marry one of your backpackers and then I’m sure the discussion will arise as to whether which one of you is expected to stay at home to cook and clean, stay quiet and respect her man. hahaha.

    • Richard says:

      12:11pm | 29/11/10

      Woah-ho-ho!

      It seems to me that Aman is just exercising the same choice to be single that women of the feminist persuasion like author Germaine Greer et al exercised, and out come the knives! All of a sudden he isn’t worthy of a partner even if he did change his mind, and that the pure innocent women of Australia would never condescend to have a relationship with him.

      Nasty much?

    • Anne71 says:

      12:42pm | 29/11/10

      “The greatest thing feminism delivered to me was not having to buy the cow.”

      It works both ways, Aman. Now women don’t have to buy the whole pig just for one sausage wink

    • Aman says:

      03:33pm | 29/11/10

      All you women have proven is that your entitlement complexes aren’t worth what you have to offer.

      I bet you settled for a David Brent type

    • Ryan says:

      03:39pm | 29/11/10

      @Anne71: I thought Aman explained that already, the sausage part is irrelevant once you get married, once you get married she isn’t interested in it again.

    • Suzanne says:

      07:52am | 29/11/10

      I think yes. Men and women are created differently. I think we need to get away from the idea that different is somehow bad. Each have their roles to play in healthy relationships and society. I think if both men and women played to their natural strengths and both respected those, we’d all be in a happier and better place. Great article

    • hot tub political machine says:

      02:14pm | 29/11/10

      Well said. It reminds me a bit of how, when anti-racism was a less mature movement people tried to be colour blind rather than recognise and value the differences between people.

      Similarly we should not be gender blind, but have profound respect for the other gender. What a world that would be.

    • Macca says:

      07:57am | 29/11/10

      Men and women are not equal.

      That is not to say that Women are less able to perform tasks then men, but they may go about it in different ways (like everyone, aren’t we all individuals?)

      Some of the best Turners and Fitters we have at my workplace are women. Most of the young boys get into because they like to get their hands dirty. The girls on the otherhand succeed because they have great attention to detail. Both these statements are increadibly generic. It’s easier.

      In no way would I ever think that somebody couldn’t acheive something because of their gender, or ethnic background, or socioeconomic status or because they have webbed feet. However, men will never know the “joy” or childbirth, the same way that women will never know the “joy” of seeing your best mate’s face being farted on because he passed out early at the end of season footy trip.

      Stereotypically, Men and Women have different tendencies, there are things that they will more likely be drawn towards. However, that is not to say these tendencies are limitations, just preferences amongst the wider population.

    • bec says:

      08:02am | 29/11/10

      You keep using this word, “feminism”. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      I don’t think men and women are exactly the same, or that gender is 100% nurture over nature. If that were the case, then there wouldn’t be a single transgender or transsexual person alive. There are some physical and physiological differences between men and women; often, the rate of variation is greater between people of the same sex than they are between men and women definitively, but there are differences. The more we get to find out about those subtle differences - which have only arisen since feminism when subjects for medical research stopped being only the white men who attended universities - the more I’m fascinated by humanity.

      The fact remains for me that feminism means being whoever *you* want to be and following whatever path *you* want to follow, be you male or female. I am glad that this means that my brother will probably have a better relationship with his own kids than my dad got the opportunity to. I am glad this means that my fiance will actually have a relationship with his kids. I am hopeful that within the next five years, we won’t have a windback of power from women, but an extension of some of those privileges to men (ability to work part-time, better paternity leave).

      Some of the things that anti-feminists want for men can be achieved through feminism. MRAs aren’t going to get more custody in the courts if women are still by and large the primary caregivers or lower wage earners.

      I am loudly and proudly a feminist. I don’t even feel that I need to qualify that with “but I don’t hate men”, because that’s so obviously and stupidly incorrect that I don’t feel it deserves being added on.

    • Belle says:

      09:56am | 29/11/10

      Well said Bec. As a feminist myself, I would love to see men have more rights in regards to children, more parental leave entitlements and ability to spend more time with their children through flexible working hours. But you are right, this will only happen when we see more genuine equality in parenting and work, both with respect to policy and social acceptance.

    • BK says:

      10:00am | 29/11/10

      No, you probably don’t hate men and don’t hate other women. You just aren’t about to care about anyone other than yourself. The “feminism is about choice” slogan has become the excuse for all sorts of revolting selfishness

    • bec says:

      10:50am | 29/11/10

      BK, let me tell you about myself, what I do for a crust and what I stand for.

      I am a teacher at an all-boys’ school. (Cue the “zomg, oh noes, feminizing our boys, etc!). I spend upwards of sixty hours a week doing nothing *but* make the world a better place for my boys. I teach 270 individual students. I know all of their names, their families. I know what sport every single boy plays and I have seen every one of them at least once. And for the boys who don’t play sport, guess who is coaching them with cultural activities for little extra pay because I think it’s worthwhile for all people to do what they want in life? Me.

      I constantly get parents begging to have me teach their sons, and I have boys who come into my class because they hate their other teachers because I actually take the time to listen to them. I encourage them to be all they can be. I don’t care if they love rugby or dancing in the musical, or if they want to be a plumber or an artist: I am there because I take pride in making sure they can do whatever it is in life that they want without judgement or holding themselves back. I don’t care if they’re super-masculine or effeminate: they’re people who deserve to do what they want to in life.

      I saw what life was like for my dad, who was shackled into being the primary breadwinner. It nearly destroyed his life, and my family. I don’t want any of my boys, who I love dearly, to have to live a life that society or their parents have picked out for them. There is nothing worse than being forced into something because your gender, or your class, or your supposed intelligence insists you must do it.

      So blow it out your arse if you are still convinced that I’m only in it for myself. I do more to make boys’ lives better every single day of mine than these idiotic anti-feminists do.

    • BK says:

      12:17pm | 29/11/10

      If you taught teenaged girls, you would know exactly what I’m talking about. Many of them care only about themselves and think that doing whatever they want makes them liberated, empowered and acting in the name of feminism.

    • Tim says:

      12:21pm | 29/11/10

      “You keep using this word, “feminism”. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

      Bec,
      the problem with this statement is that there is a large proportion of people who describe themselves as “feminists” who don’t think it means what you think it does.
      Unfortunately they seem to be the loudest and most annoying proponents of it.

    • bec says:

      12:24pm | 29/11/10

      I have taught girls, for many years. Many are fine, upstanding people. When I worked in the state sector, I taught plenty of girls who were also unpaid carers for parents and grandparents who had disabilities. That’s not selfish in the slightest: that’s incredibly giving. I knew many more who lived in horrific situations because of family sexual abuse and subsequent involvement in foster families who had no idea how to take care of these girls.

      There are plenty of crap kids, boys and girls. I think it’s less a gender thing than it is a generation thing. The girls who were selfish and irresponsible were certainly not feminists and would have beaten you if you’d accused them of such. Rudeness, irresponsible promiscuity with no regard for the feelings or safety of others, and being an attention-whore aren’t traits of feminism as a whole; some people who might admit to being feminists might be these things, but it’s the same as saying “all men love beetroot on their burgers”.

    • Chris says:

      10:37pm | 01/12/10

      Bec, Do you want to teach my kids, We need more teachers with values like yours. My son had a teacher a few years ago with similar values. She believed in helping the “average kid” as much as the gifted kids or those who got extra help because they are disadvantaged.  Even though her whole class did really well, especially in their confidence levels,  she ended up giving up teaching as she got no support from a school more interested in the awards the gifted kids brought and the extra funding they got for the diadvantaged.

    • Leo says:

      08:04am | 29/11/10

      The problem started when we gave them the right to vote.

    • Karen says:

      08:18am | 29/11/10

      I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. I am a married woman, and I know full well if I believed any of this rubbish my husband never would have married me. He appreciates that I am a strong minded hard working independent woman, as I appreciate that he is a wonderful hard working man.

      Gillard is my hero, btw.

    • James says:

      09:12am | 29/11/10

      “Gillard is my hero, btw.”

      Yes, by the rest of your comment Karen that does not suprise me. A Gillard supporter who throws up in her mouth at very constructive observations, is self absorbed and cares little for anyone elses opinions ... not suprising at all. M0r0n!

    • ibast says:

      01:53pm | 29/11/10

      James, play the ball not the “man”.  Carrying on like that makes you look like the idiot.

    • Chris T says:

      08:18am | 29/11/10

      As the bible says “The meek will inherit the earth” Once they do will they still be meek?
      In our rush to be equal wether gender, race we have bred a generation of weak humans and from those will spring weaker humans until there is nothing left. Dont misinterpret what I am saying. I respect every gender and every race. There is good and bad in all, some more then others. But instead of giving the job to the best person we have now gone in to percentage mode. So many percent must be women, so many must be from an aboriginal background, so many must be from an english speaking background. It is on every govenrment form you fill out. Why? if it does not matter, why ask for it. I still give my seat to a woman, open the door if I can and show them the utmost respect, those that deserve it. It is not because I think them the weaker sex, it is because I am polite and still believe in chivalry. Shame it is all going down the drain of political correctness and minority peer pressure.

    • Bernadette Haggerty says:

      08:18am | 29/11/10

      You’re an idiot, come back and talk to me when you have kids, a partner and you’re doing all the housework and the child care while he plays sports at the weekend and is free to have drinks after work. See how equal you feel then love.
      You’re only able to have the job you have now due to feminism - bite the hand that feeds you.

    • RT says:

      08:20am | 29/11/10

      Your article proves nothing but your ignorance Josephine. You have done very little research that would have provided this article with any depth. If you want to wade into the world of controversial journalism, may I suggest you read from others who have done so with great success because of the thoroughness of their broad and deep understanding of all the components of the argument, eg Christopher Hitchens on religion. This is puerile, insulting and just plain wrong.

    • Feminine says:

      08:20am | 29/11/10

      Read ‘Radical Womanhood - Feminine faith in a feminist world’ by Carolyn McCully. I just finished reading it, and today I happened to read your article!

    • Tallam says:

      08:24am | 29/11/10

      If god wanted them to be equal, he would have done so Himself.

      Obviously He did not want them Same. He wanted them to “Complete Each Other”

    • Dave says:

      03:45pm | 29/11/10

      come on, obviously god is female
      1. Men do all the work,
      2. we have a small piece of skin covering out balls, if god were male we would have a second rib cage

    • Mr Draper says:

      08:28am | 29/11/10

      The comments in this article are only valid if you are a venal, insecure person. Happily, from the comments here, we can see many people are and therefore this rings true. Of course the problem isn’t feminism, it’s that people are too feeble to break free of stereotypes. But what else do you expect from whining conservatives? Ah well, let’s hope one day it will be 1950 again and women can be back in the kitchen happily doped up on valium.

    • bec says:

      09:06am | 29/11/10

      Please tell me you look like Jon Hamm too. Because you sound like a very handsome man…

    • Gino says:

      08:29am | 29/11/10

      There is a lot of confusion as to the meaning of “feminism” . Certainly, my understanding of it over the many years I have called myself a feminist, is far, far removed from how Ms. Asher represents it. Feminism promotes the rights of women to equal opportunities, and respect for the qualities inherent in the female gender. Of course woman should be able to work if they need to support their family in the absence of a responsible husband, but Feminism never meant that women should become carbon copies of men. That is the antithesis of feminism.
      A little knowledge is dangerous and young women spouting off about ‘feminism” when they know nothing of it, are dangerous in that they give a bad reputation to a movement that has worked hard to ensure that the female and the feminine qualities, are regarded with respect and honour.

    • corvus says:

      01:03pm | 29/11/10

      Yes, Women do have equal rights, they can apply for every job a man can apply for, and if a man is more suitable for the job he should be selected over the woman…but that is NOT what I have heard people in the feminist movement say.

      It is about making sure that women get what they want, because men used to get what they wanted.  Now it is equal(mostly) so of course, the goals of ‘equality’ change so that the fight can go on.

      I believe that people on this planet should all be treated the same, the best person for a job should be selected, their gender/race/religion/height/weight/hair colour should not come into it.  But the thing i wish to see most is poeple stop spouting accusations of sexism and racism at the drop of a hat simply because things didnt go their way.  Political correctness has ruined this society.

    • Anne71 says:

      08:30am | 29/11/10

      Wow, Josephine. I’m sorry you feel that way about feminism. I’m sorry that you have the right to vote and the right to retain ownership and control of your property when you get married. I’m sorry that you have the right to higher education, or a decent, well-paying job if the knight in shining armour never turns up or decides to run off with another Rapunzel, leaving you to look after the children. I’m sorry that you have the right to object if you’re subjected to sexual harassment.
      Feminism does not have to mean treating men like idiots, or acting like a man yourself. I do neither of those things. I treat men with respect and expect them to treat me the same way. So do all the women I know. I also enjoy wearing nice clothes and high heels, but I don’t do it to get a man’s attention, or to make him do things for me. I do it for myself.
      As for saying that men being able to cook, do the laundry etc makes them less of a man, I’d be laughing in your face if I met you. My late father was a Royal Navy commando, a WWII veteran. But he was also a wonderful cook, he knew how to operate a washing machine and how to mend his own clothes. He made damn sure my brothers learned the same skills, because my dad thought there was nothing more pathetic than a man who could not look after himself and had to rely on his mother/sister/wife to do it for him. Oh yeah - and he could strip down and rebuild a car engine too, and all those other “dad skills” that James May spoke about, too.

    • Louise V says:

      12:37pm | 29/11/10

      My Dads the same type of wonderfully well rounded self sufficient individual, as was my mother. She worked full time when I was growing up and I couldn’t have been prouder of either of them. Life competence is attractive and makes you more interesting no matter of your gender.

      Isn’t it wonderful to want someone around because you love them and not because you can’t open your own jars?

    • sick of 'equality' says:

      08:31am | 29/11/10

      Hey look I’d LOVE to stay at home full time and raise our children and do all the housekeeping. However my husband EXPECTS me to contribute financially, as do our family and friends. I still do all the child care when I’m not working, and 99% of the domestic duties while my husband gets to come home after work and put his feet up. I’m still on my feet until 10pm every night and then have to get up at 6am to get the kids ready and get to work. My husband gets applauded by family and friends for doing the smallest thing around the house like taking the garbage out or changing a nappy. While I’m contributing 40% of the household income, 99% of the housework and 99.9% of the child caring and raising. He’s not even the breadwinner but I’m expected to work as well as care for children and keep a household running. Yeah thanks feminism. I’d swap with a 1950’s housewife in a heartbeat.

    • Elle says:

      09:17am | 29/11/10

      The problem isn’t that feminism came along to offer women more than a life of slavery in the kitchen. The problem here is that you are letting your husband treat you like dirt and not carry his weight. If your husband is so useless (he sounds it) why don’t you do something about it? Rather than blame the women and men that fought so hard to make sure you actually have the right to leave him.

    • progressivesunite says:

      09:20am | 29/11/10

      Ah, I think you’ll find the problem isn’t feminism - it’s your husband….(and you for putting up with being treated like that)

    • Real Woman says:

      11:01am | 29/11/10

      Recently told my man to start helping out in the house or hire a maid to do his share. I am working full time and doing all the shopping for food, meal planning, house work and 99.9% gardening, including the mowing and edge trimming.

      I still do not feel I can have a child as I’m sure I’ll end up doing all of the work there too.

    • Rusty says:

      02:39pm | 29/11/10

      The housing market sets market value for housing.  When 60’s American Feminist Betty Friedan said that women were suffering from a malady without a name, a malady that could be corrected if women entered the paid workforce, thats when the rot set in.  Competing couples set house prices.  When couples decide to send out 2 breadwinners, disposable income rises by a factor of at least 4 with a flow on effect to house prices. I don’t hear men whinging that their wife doesn’t come along to the roadworks and help them lay pipes.  Oh, thats mens work,isn’t it???

    • Men are aholes says:

      08:31am | 29/11/10

      Men treat women with contempt because they the men are aholes!  It was the same before so called feminism!  Feminism what ever that is, is men to correct the imbalance but men just become evil about is since they are ahole from the start.

    • shoulder says:

      09:15am | 29/11/10

      I think I shall call you Boulder, because there is no way anyone could describe that as simply a chip.

    • hired goon says:

      09:16am | 29/11/10

      Men treat people who are worthy of contempt with contempt.

      Men and women. Respect is earned, not inherently deserved.

      If you’re treated with respect, it is because you’ve earned it.

      Since what you’ve written is incomprehensible gibberish, I’d say you’re somewhat feeble-minded and often treated with contempt. Just a guess, though.

    • Henry says:

      08:33am | 29/11/10

      Men and women have different skills. Interchanging their roles is not the best solution to equality. Us men are built to be stronger and we still love the ladies.

    • Kika says:

      01:13pm | 29/11/10

      Not true. Men and women can equally do the same jobs. In Europe it’s quite common for ladies to be tradies these days. And a lot of men stay at home to take care of children while the woman works. They look at this kind of attitude as archaic. And it is. The only thing women can’t do is produce sperm. Likewise the only thing men can’t do is produce ovum. That’s it.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      12:52pm | 16/12/10

      Kika says:  01:13pm | 29/11/10

      Utter rubbish.

      I think you need to go play a team sport and see how the selection works.

    • Phil says:

      08:35am | 29/11/10

      I am married to a beautiful Chinese woman. She is not a feminist, in fact she hates the idea of a feminist and what it repensents.My wife expects doors open for her, a chair pulled out for her at are restaurant or dinner at home. Yes she wants a career, she is alot smarter than me I use her quick mind and intelligence and tell her that is a good idea or a bad idea, and she will have a career and still be a lady at the same time. Yes you can have it all and still be a lady.

    • Gino says:

      09:45am | 29/11/10

      You have no idea what a feminist is Phil. A feminist is a female who expects to be treated with respect, as an adult, as intelligent, as capable. To have the same civil rights and opportunities as a man. A feminist is not seeking to be a man or to be treated like a man. That is the oppositie of feminism - a feminist celebrates all that is female and celebrates the difference between the genders - but refuses to accept the notion that women are less than men.

    • Sam says:

      09:53am | 29/11/10

      She should appreciate the fight feminists won for her to have a career to enable her to apply her quick mind and intelligence.
      I’d have to say she was a feminist, even if she dislikes the term

    • Leah says:

      10:22am | 29/11/10

      Don’t you get it Phil? Your wife has a CHOICE if she wants a career or not, thanks to the feminist movement.
      You can still be a lady and be a “feminist” at the same time. It simply means having the opportunity to do what you wish - career or whatever - regardless of gender.

    • Kika says:

      01:15pm | 29/11/10

      Good luck once she’s middle aged. Do you know anything about confucian family values? Women run the house. Let the man think he’s the boss, then the power switches. Such a naive man.

    • Peter says:

      03:17pm | 29/11/10

      @ Leah, don’t forget the criticism Tony Abbott copped when he used the term “housewife”. Feminism is not about choice, it’s about making women into the same kind of bricks. Humans are stones, not bricks..

    • Marco Polo says:

      08:36am | 29/11/10

      And that is why I’m engaged to a beautiful Chinese girl. The problem with a lot (not all by a lot) of aussie women today is that they try to act and dress like bogan men: Drinking heavily, tattoos, foul language, blaring music from cars…not ladylike at all. On the other hand, I notice a lot of Asian women dress much more feminine, more family oriented and are generally much more pleasant to talk and go out with. 

      Yes, there are good and bad from every nationality but from many years living in Melbourne, that’s why I’ve observed.

      I’m all for women being equal in terms of voting, employment etc but when women try to act as men in terms of dress, demeanour, personality etc….it’s just not attractive. As a man I’m attracted to a woman…not a woman trying to act like “one of the boys”.

    • Kika says:

      01:28pm | 29/11/10

      So thats why your marrying a woman with the body of a young boy? Stop being racist. I am an Aussie girl who likes being feminine, hates ladettes and I don’t drink.  Again, my ex mother in law was an asian lady. This is common so you are warned, Asian girls act sweet and innocent when they are young and let the man feel powerful. Then as the children grow the mother gains more power in the family and ends up being the boss.

    • jade says:

      01:53pm | 29/11/10

      Good on you. Glad you’ve found what you are looking for.

      Fortunately, the boys I date appreciate a woman who they can drink with, who enjoys watching the football with them, who they don’t have to watch their language around, and who is not a pushover or doormat. They out of respect watch their topics of conversation and treat me with respect. They also appreciate that I’m not a delicate little ornament that they can’t play with. They like that I am just as willing to go and try dirtbike riding, jetskiing, rockclimbing, fishing, watch rodeos, and go camping in some extreme conditions as I am to spend a day at the salon getting my hair and nails done, and spend 3 hours getting ready on a Saturday night, and spend an entire day walking around shops trying clothes on without buying a thing.

      Most women nowadays are extremely feminine. They just appreciate the opportunity to participate in activities that were once the province of men only. And some men are threatened by that.

    • Marco Polo says:

      03:01pm | 29/11/10

      Hah thats funny Kika. You accuse me of being racist (Hint read the bit where I said “not all”) but you give your own racial stereotype about Asian women regarding their bodies.

      Buy a mirror so you can see who the real racist is.

    • Jessie says:

      11:00am | 01/12/10

      Kika, that’s not very nice. I am Asian and I have a very nice rack and some junk in the trunk. You’re being just as offensive as me saying that a man wouldn’t want a white woman is absolutely gigantically manly with big hands and an awful loud raucous voice.

      A lot of girls, not just asian, play the sweet and innocent card - don’t let your rank bitch of a mother in law ruin your opinion of Asians. But you should also open your mind a little and understand that Asian culture (Thai, Chinese, whatever) are different from white Australian culture and you should’ve understood that before you married your chink. Don’t marry a man thinking you can change them, marry them thinking you can work with their flaws.

    • Suzy says:

      08:37am | 29/11/10

      It seems to me that the patriarch has taken it’s toll on the writer of this article. Sorry to say this but your attitude is exactly what women throughout the century have fought to stop from happening, and have clearly failed.

      What you have clearly forgotten is that men in this society hold almost ALL of the power. They govern us, they head the companies that pollute the water our children drinks, they mine the land for natural resources and profit massively from this while women feed the machine for FREE by providing it with new workers, and free labour in the form of childbirth, rearing and housekeeping. And you are ok with this? Perhaps you also think women shouldn’t have access to education and training either because it will all be wasted if we decide to become mothers. 

      Yet it’s not your fault. I blame this kind of attitude on the media, for making you feel that you need to blame women for the failings of society, on the social pressures that make women avoid taking up the mantle of equality for fear of not being womanly enough, on men who encourage women to act like their mothers, on men who have not learnt how to do the house chores and think it’s ok to leave it up to the woman, and society in general have clearly brainwashed you into thinking being subservient is ok. I hope you grow out of it.

    • Muttley says:

      01:19pm | 29/11/10

      You’re right Suzy. All us evil men gather together at our secret weekly meetings and plot how to keep any power away from the womenfolk. LOL. You’re comment is a crack up. Or it would be if you werent serious. Try joining us in this century and see how you like that.

    • PGNEWC says:

      03:41pm | 29/11/10

      A good way to stop men from having all the power is to stop choosing men as partners BECAUSE THEY HAVE POWER you think maybe?. There are plenty men who are not competitive but we learn very quickly what is attractive to you double x chromosone people. You socially and sexually punish men for not having power and then scratch your head in amazement because we occupy the said positions of power—good grief!

    • Suzy says:

      08:16am | 01/12/10

      of course as a man you know exacly how it is to be a female so why don’t you tell us all about it Muttley? I am sick and tired of men telling me how the world is for women. And yes the world is governed by mostly men, and the last time i checked women don’t get paid to spend 15 or more years having children, so where is the premise for your argument?

    • Suzy says:

      08:38am | 29/11/10

      It seems to me that the patriarch has taken it’s toll on the writer of this article. Sorry to say this but your attitude is exactly what women throughout the century have fought to stop from happening, and have clearly failed.

      What you have clearly forgotten is that men in this society hold almost ALL of the power. They govern us, they head the companies that pollute the water our children drinks, they mine the land for natural resources and profit massively from this while women feed the machine for FREE by providing it with new workers, and free labour in the form of childbirth, rearing and housekeeping. And you are ok with this? Perhaps you also think women shouldn’t have access to education and training either because it will all be wasted if we decide to become mothers. 

      Yet it’s not your fault. I blame this kind of attitude on the media, for making you feel that you need to blame women for the failings of society, on the social pressures that make women avoid taking up the mantle of equality for fear of not being womanly enough, on men who encourage women to act like their mothers, on men who have not learnt how to do the house chores and think it’s ok to leave it up to the woman, and society in general have clearly brainwashed you into thinking being subservient is ok. I hope you grow out of it.

    • Katy says:

      08:38am | 29/11/10

      Interesting piece Josephine. If we could reshape the workforce to make it more appropriate for the age we live in then women could stick to their natural strengths and men to theirs. Women should have the opportunity to work and go as far as their talent will take them. However, I think it is a huge pity that any woman feels she has to act like a man to get ahead. As for home, I agree men are floundering with what society expects from them and women are no less confused and unhappy. A bit more loyalty and mutual respect would do wonders for everyone.

    • Chirs says:

      08:39am | 29/11/10

      This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.

    • Trish says:

      11:27am | 29/11/10

      Amen to that!!

    • Kel says:

      08:28am | 30/11/10

      Chris, your comment is the smartest thing I’ve read!! I totally agree.
      Can’t believe how many people are bleating about how feminism has ruined their lives rather than the rather obvious fact they live in misery as they have a crap partner. Talk about professional victims! “Waa, my wife talks bad to me!” “Sniffle, my husband expects me to work while doing nothing to help around the house and it’s the feminists fault!”
      Grow up!

    • Rose says:

      08:39am | 29/11/10

      I spent 24 years in the traditional role of wife and mother.  Ended up in a psych ward for trying to end it all. When there is a power imbalance in a relationship there can be all kinds of abuse.  It took a lot of courage to leave in middle age and start from scratch retraining for the workforce.

      I am now with a man who treats me well, and I treat him well.  We share the household tasks and both earn an income.  There is no lack of passion in our relationship because we both have respect for each other and an understanding of what the other is doing. This fuels our love which fuels our passion.

      Relationships work because of the character of the people in them, not what roles they choose to play. For some women and men the traditional roles may work well and for others it can be a disaster.  I would hate to think of living back in the age where women and men did not have a choice.

    • Wayne Kerr says:

      01:07pm | 29/11/10

      You hit the nail on the head Rose.

      My wife and I have a similar thing going and respect is the key. We shere tasks, I cook, she cleans, I wash the clothes, she vaccums the house.  I mow the lawn, she does the DYI stuff.  Why shouldn’t she, she’s better on the the tools than I’ll ever be and I’m a a much better cook than she is.  We play to our strengths and appreciate what the other does and we both work full time..

      If I was worried about sterotypes I’d be in counselling because my wife can use a drill better than me but then again she’d be in counselling because I cook nicer meals..

    • A man's daughter says:

      08:40am | 29/11/10

      I had more respect for my father than my friends father’s who were pressured into taxiing the children to ballet, netball, shopping, school.
      It seemed to them that their fathers were pushovers, they had their fathers wrapped around their little finger. I respected my dad, he did manly things, raced cars, mowed lawns, fixed the windows and climbed on the roof to clear gutters. He had male friends and they talked about man’s things in the shed. It was a world that I knew I wouldn’t be a part of but I admired it. It impressed me. This was the world of men.
      I felt privileged and held so much more value when my dad took attention on me, and I strived to make him proud. He was wise. Reachable but more unreachable than mum, which wasn’t a bad thing. Our family was very supportive of each other.

    • Jade says:

      05:15pm | 29/11/10

      I feel dreadfully sorry for your mother. You state in your post that your father was “reachable, but more unreachable than mum.” and that “I felt privileged and held so much more value when my dad took attention on me, and I strived to make him proud.” Which indicated to me that your mother was the one who spent the time with you, who raised you, who tended to your skinned knees and your bruises and scrapes, who gave you unconditional love and attention, but that seems to be irrelevant to you in the face of the small crumbs of affection your father bestowed on you. Why were you not so desperate to make your mother proud of you? Why did your mother’s attention not inspire such value? Because it was more available.

      “I respected my dad, he did manly things, raced cars, mowed lawns, fixed the windows and climbed on the roof to clear gutters. He had male friends and they talked about man’s things in the shed. It was a world that I knew I wouldn’t be a part of but I admired it. It impressed me. This was the world of men.”

      Funny thing, my father never made his world an exclusive boys’ club. I got to learn how to screw down floors, use a drill, my dad taught me about football and car racing and let me help mow the lawn (when we had one), fix things around the house, and let me join in conversations with his colleagues. I respected my father as much as my mother, because of this. Because I got to be a part of his world. And I learnt from that that there is no reason I can’t do anything the boys do. I also learnt that I deserved respect for my choices in life, no matter what they happen to be.

      I would have had no respect for my father had he attempted to exclude me from his world or teach me that girls can’t do these things. And I valued the attention from both my parents equally. I respected my stay-at-home mother immensely because I was raised to understand that this had been a choice on her part, that there were a lot of other options out there for her, and that choosing to be a mother meant sacrificing a lot of other things that she had dreamed of doing. I never felt guilty about that - merely grateful. She had decided that the most important thing to her was to be a great mother, and she believed that her personality was not one that would enable her to achieve this with a career outside the home. I was in awe of my mother’s decision (still am) because I could not imagine doing it. I would be a terrible stay-at-home mother - i need the stimulation of my job, and of a career.

      I appreciated the time my father spent with me, and appreciated the sacrifices he made in his life to work hard to earn money to support us. Because one of those sacrifices he made, and constantly reinforced to me was time with his family.

      I strove my whole life to make both my parents proud of me, equally. Its a shame you don’t appreciate the sacrifice your mother made to bring you up and seek to make her as proud as your father.

    • Emma says:

      08:43am | 29/11/10

      God how disturbing.  I’m always amazed at the number of women prepared to stab their own gender in the back to score brownie points from men.

      Feminism isn’t about putting men down or hating them, you’ve taken on all the extreme views of feminism and completely missed the point - it’s about equality.  You wouldn’t be allowed to state your opinion on this blog without it, or have choices in your life or enjoy any of the other benefits women have in western society.  Get back to me when you have your first child and enjoy that maternity leave, or when your workplace is obliged to offer you part time hours after you go back to work.  Think back to when you ticked your course/career choices on the university entrance form - nobody was telling you “no you can’t do that because you’re a women”.

      Feminism helped to introduce laws to protect women - way to shoot yourself in the foot.  Not too bright.

      I agree men and women are different - I’m attracted to men because of their masculinity but men washing a few dishes and picking up after themselves does not emasculate them. It’s called having a few life skills.

      And while we’re on the subject of women who don’t cook, I know quite a few men who don’t have their drivers licence or a decent job - what’s up with that?

      Yeah, generalising never really works does it ...

    • Sandra says:

      09:38am | 29/11/10

      I agree with you Emma, there’s far too many sweeping generalizations in this piece to take it seriously.

    • Big Boi says:

      08:44am | 29/11/10

      Look at J Gillard ladies, is this the best result of the feminist cause? Male or female, in a society based on equality you have to get the job done right because your gender won’t give you an excuse for failure.

    • Peter says:

      08:45am | 29/11/10

      Well said Suzanne ! I agree, great article.

    • Peter says:

      08:45am | 29/11/10

      Feminism should focus on giving women “choice”. Choice to be a stay at home mum, choice to start a family early in life and then intergrate into the workforce if they like. Not every woman wants to be a corporate superstar (just like some men).

      Choice is what it’s all about…

    • Anna says:

      08:46am | 29/11/10

      “Instead, men are sporting aprons, doing their own ironing and pushing trolleys down supermarket aisles “

      Oh noes! Men have to do their own washing? what is this world coming to? Feminism certainly has ruined men and society hasn’t it?

      This is pure drivell

    • Zoe says:

      09:06am | 29/11/10

      absolutely!

      Society tells us that Men run the world, as heads of state, militaries, companies etc. And yet, the media tells us they are incapable of looking after themselves in the domestic sphere. What rot.

      Furthermore, to be manly does not mean being an abusive, uncaring oaf. By the same token, to be a woman doesn’t mean to be a frigid shrew. We need to drop these social stereotypes of what “manliness” and “woman-ness” are and just be human.

      Equality does not mean that men & women are the same! we are built differently & think differently but that doesn’t mean that women should be treated as underlings incapable or undesiring of a fulfllled life.

      Being caring, strong, polite, kind, funny, sporty or arrogant are not traits only applicable to one gender, and by the same token, being caring or quiet, or *shock* being able to clean up after oneself,  does not make a man any less of a man.

    • sophie says:

      08:46am | 29/11/10

      I am pretty sure men can speak for themselves without needing another subservient woman to do their dirty work for them. Why are you wasting our time trying to get us to feel sorry for men, when they wage world wars, wreck our environment, govern us really badly, then make us feel shit if we don’t look sexy for them or make them their favourite meal. Please send this writer and her pathetic attitudes back to the 18th century!

    • Rossco says:

      09:34am | 29/11/10

      Yes because all the female leaders in society throughout history have never waged wars, done damage to the environment or governed us badly.

      Please send this writer and her pathetic attitudes back to reality!

    • Markus says:

      10:35am | 29/11/10

      Last I checked it was Gillard and Kenneally in charge of the two governments doing the most successful job of destroying this country, all the while being watched over by Quentin Bryce as our Governor-General.

    • Sophie says:

      08:21am | 01/12/10

      ok so you cite two examples of women throughout the 200 year history of white Australian society and tell me I am wrong? Sorry but that isn’t a proper rebuttal. Predominantly the leaders who run this planet are men. I am not saying women would do it better, but stating a clear FACT! Why is that so difficult to comprehend. Go back to history classes!

    • ocl says:

      08:46am | 29/11/10

      We used to embrace this in Asia. this is how we used to live in asia. But we changed a lot since the modernization. It was says by Kong Fu Zi ( Confucius). The relationships of woman to its husband. vice verse, the relationship of son, daughter, and parents, vice verse, the relationship of older and younger brother and sister and vice verse. the relationship between friends. the relationship between government and government. It is also said in Chinese literature about Yin and Yang. it has to be in balance and each has its own role. In this days none of them are in order no more. That is why lots of marriage divorced. woman and man are not happy to each other and decided to find another partner. it s all in increase, that is why. now populations kind of declining in some developed world. especially in western world. It is an increase that Western man are more interested in Asian woman, because of asian woman know their role as a woman. so the man has more feeling like a man. all it says in article is right, woman getting bossy, and the man feel like has no balls. however i appreciate the western scholars that realize this, so that at least it is being put on the table and will find its solutions soon. It is very important for the people around the world, as they eye modernization as the western world picture. so nowadays, woman around the world are getting more and more behaving like western woman. it is not a good sign.

      i like those article that nowadays relationship are becoming more and more like two person rubbing genital on bed. but somehow it is true. the impact is huge.

    • Zaf says:

      09:46am | 29/11/10

      Yay!!!!!!  What insight! 

      (Have you ever actually MET a Chinese woman?  I ask merely from interest, because it doesn’t sound like you have…)

    • Tom says:

      11:35am | 29/11/10

      And south american women know their place and still take your balls!

      My fiance could spend the morning feeding me ice cream while i play xbox and then spend the afternoon swearing at me because im not cooking dinner the way she likes! arrgh

    • Gail says:

      08:47am | 29/11/10

      Isn’t the point that we should all have the choice? If you want want to be a submissive dependent then go right ahead - just don’t make me live your life. 

      Ray - if you are in an unhappy relationship use some of those male characteristic you say you never abrogate, get some balls and get a divorce.

    • El says:

      12:08pm | 29/11/10

      Gail 1
      Ray 0

    • Cate swannell says:

      08:48am | 29/11/10

      Three obsetvations: 1. You’re confusing ‘equal’ with ‘the same’. 2. You’re assuming ‘equal’ means ‘pinning a man under your heel’. 3. You’re wrong.

    • WTF! says:

      08:49am | 29/11/10

      “Feminism has achieved victories for women, but could it be at the expense of femininity, chivalry and attributes of the opposite sex that instinctively attract us to each other?”

      Are you on crack?

    • x2 says:

      09:36am | 29/11/10

      Best comment on here!

    • Men Are Evil says:

      08:49am | 29/11/10

      Men are evil! Today they blame women for their own rotten behaviour - they have the top jobs and income yet are still aholes!  Plus they have whroes and strippers an all that sht too.  So, they are still aholes.  Always have been and always will be.

    • Beverley says:

      08:49am | 29/11/10

      Aman: completely agree with you.  While feminism may have ‘ruined society’ as you say, I admit I have benefited greatly from the movement.

      60 years ago, I could not have had a successful career as a University academic, in a male-dominated field.  I would have been looked at strangely for not carrying an innate urge to marry & have children - and might have been burned at the stake for wanting to be financially independent and buy my own home on my (sole) income.

      I too am in my 30s, free and active, (doing what I want, when I want), but most importantly, thanks to feminism, I am no longer required to be contract-bound to provide regular sexual encounters to some grot of a lazy man who once wooed me with exciting, but fleeting, romance.  A man who probably started by pulling his weight with the household chores, but over time managed to weasel his way out of any real housework.  I am no longer socially-bound to continue to be a slave to, not only the man, but his hoard of offspring - committing me to a life of servitude as a housewife & mother.

      Feminism and education have enlightened women to the ‘mugs game’ that used to be marriage & motherhood.  The modern family arrangements we have might not serve ‘society’ as well as the old system, but it certainly gives women more choices.  Just as society learned to operate without slavery, so too will our society learn to operate without marriage.

    • Shar says:

      10:25am | 29/11/10

      Touche - love it!

    • Yazar says:

      05:58pm | 29/11/10

      If marriage is such a crock for women, why are there so many nanny state institutions made available free of charge to compensate women when their man does a runner?

    • Sarah Sharp says:

      08:49am | 29/11/10

      Oh my, Josephine I bet you didn’t mean to unleash that torrent of misogyny on the comments board of this article. It’s truly sad and embarrassing when a woman publically identifys herself as ‘anti-feminist’. I dare you to read Judith Butler’s ‘Gende Trouble’, in light of your ideas about femininity and chivalry being inherent, but in the meantime, please do not purport in your articles that your view is representative of women and men generally. Normal people think you’re an idiot.

    • Tam says:

      08:50am | 29/11/10

      Try living the other side of this, wanting to stay at home with two young kids for two years (with some part time work)... and putting up with the ‘why should I be the only one to work’.

      Unfortunately there are many many men who are incapable of providing, incapable of supporting and just want to trudge along in blah land so long as they have a beer in their hand.  It is not a case of allowing them, or enabling them to reclaim their power… there are simply many men who are incapable of it.  It cost me two houses to escape my stupidity when I realised this.

      I would never advocate for a woman (or man for that matter) to leave themselves so vulnerable to the whims of another person.

    • Bruce says:

      08:52am | 29/11/10

      Go Josie. So refreshing to see that a young lady, not only understands the underlying issues degrading our traditional family values of the joy both men and women had in raising a family together through hard work and love, BUT is prepared to stand up and say what is what. The push by feminists contributed to the economic change (1970s) that eventually created a situation where more women were forced into the workforce to provide for the basic needs of the family that had become too far out of reach due to the downgrade of the male position. Was this a political move a lead up to greater control?

    • Polly says:

      09:55am | 29/11/10

      “The downgrade of the male position”. Err. Men still earn, on average 17% more than women in jobs of comparable work. Don’t really know how that could be interpreted in anyway but continuing to maintain a dominant income position.

      But you know, you feel all subjugated and what not, with you bigger take home pay than me.

    • Markus says:

      11:23am | 29/11/10

      Polly: “Err. Men still earn, on average 17% more than women in jobs of comparable work”
      No, they earn 17% more on average based on work in all professions, there is absolutely nothing ‘comparable’ about the work.

    • Ad1 says:

      08:56am | 29/11/10

      Truth is your friend Dave is pathetic. If he feels emasculated and that’s feminism’s fault? If he finds being asked to do dishes so disempowering perhaps he’s not supposed to play the leadership role in his relationship?

    • Ad1 says:

      09:22am | 29/11/10

      Apologies for the grammatical mistakes. That should’ve read “He feels emasculated and that’s feminism’s fault?”

    • sarah says:

      08:56am | 29/11/10

      I thin there needs to be a separation between feminists. The 1960’s feminists with the slogans ‘equal pay for equal work’ and the suffragettes who wanted the right to vote, they are top women. But, the last bunch of feminists (1990’s onwards) could take a break and do something more worth while. Its getting a bit ridiculous. I don’t know what feminists want anymore. They’re objectives should be made clearer and they should have specific reasons why. It seems to be all cloaked in this notion of ‘equality’.  What I am particular against and have seen very often in my friends is the idea that children need their mother more than their father. I find this a worrying trend.

    • Mr GG says:

      08:57am | 29/11/10

      No way, Women have given up the plum jobs time to make them stick at it.
      All Men should be forced to become stay home partners when they get married, Its the woman’s job to put out the Bins and mow the lawns. We’ll cook dinner but you’d better ask us how our day has been and mean it tongue wink our we can throw your dinner in the Bin and tell you to sleep in the dog house.

      This ‘Equality’ Sucks, Either back to Men being Boss or let us be house husbands and You Can run the world. Us Men will just sit back and wait of the first War because “She wore the same lip stick as me :’(  ”

    • Elphaba says:

      08:58am | 29/11/10

      I can do all the female stuff.  Cook and bake (very well, actually), clean, sew, etc etc.  I’m happy to be the cooker and the cleaner, if a man is willing to take the garbage out (I hate the garbage run).  But that’s not all I’m going to be content with.  I will probably pester him to show me how to build something, or fix a car, or other traditional manly stuff.  It has nothing to do with feminism, but more to do with an insatiable thirst for knowledge.  If I don’t know something, I seek it out.  It’s my nature.

      Wha I don’t want, is kids.  Nothing bores me more than the idea that I have to give up my life and my interests, to nuture a child.  Yawn.  I want travel, and live music, a career and dinner parties, new clothes and shoes, theatre tickets, and time spent reading a book.

      I don’t want 3am feedings, dirty hands, broken items, soccer matches every weekend, sullen teenagers - no, no no.

      If there’s a man out there that wants what I want, great.  If not - oh well. 

      Feminism absolutely is the killer of traditional roles.  I wouldn’t change it though.

    • Keeping it Real says:

      08:58am | 29/11/10

      The answer to your head line is ‘No’. Socieity is destroying relationships, younger generations expectations are to high and they are so used to taking the so call easy option (disposable society) that if it gets boring or hard just throw it out.

    • Scotty says:

      09:00am | 29/11/10

      Any man willing to let a woman speak to them disrespectfully is just weak. When my girlfriend decides she’s going to try and condescend, she’s met with a fierce “don’t talk to me like that”. I earn more, I’m stronger, I can fix most odd jobs around the house, and I work in the corporate sphere. Men have let themselves become victims to feminism - just grow a set you weak little men. Put your girlfriend, or wife in her place verbally if she tries to treat you like a dog. Never be violent, or abusive - and if they continue, LEAVE. It’s not hard - I’ve done it many times, when taming the beast has been unsuccessful.

    • Zaf says:

      12:44pm | 29/11/10

      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/sp/Dom_violence.htm#defining

      Defining Domestic Violence

      Domestic violence occurs when a family member, partner or ex-partner attempts to physically or psychologically dominate or harm the other. According to the Commonwealth’s Office for Women (OFW), domestic violence can be exhibited in many forms, including physical violence, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, intimidation, economic deprivation or threats of violence. Domestic violence occurs in all geographic areas of Australia and in all socioeconomic and cultural groups, although domestic violence is a more significant problem for certain groups, such as regional and rural Australia and Indigenous communities.

    • Christina says:

      09:04am | 29/11/10

      “Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal?”

      Err, no. Wouldn’t we be happier if we accepted that men and women are equal, however, they are also different in some ways. There is a certain niche to be gained in the commentary business when you express views that are contrary, even though you are not living what you preach at all.

      My grandfather was a shearer and before that he used to kill kangaroos for their skins for a living. He also used to do his own ironing. Oh the injury to his masculinity! More like he was a practical man who got in and did his fair share.

    • bec says:

      09:47am | 29/11/10

      Your granddad sounds like my granddad. He too saw no discrepancy between building his family home and being able to pretty much make anything he wanted to make, and encouraging his only daughter to eschew being a housewife to become an architect.

    • Celia says:

      09:05am | 29/11/10

      Firstly I am amazed at the overall lack of happiness in people’s lives that is expressed here. Aman - buy the cow you say? I doubt you understand then the true nature of a happy marriage is not where the chattels are given over to the husband but two people of two minds embrace a friendship that will hopefully sustain a family and even more so, a love for a lifetime. No guarantees of course, we all grow, change, get sick - but to me the idea of a happy relationship has absolutely nothing to do with any of the issues raised above, it is about real, unselfish love for another person.

      Having said that the inherent differences between two people (gender not the central issue necessarily) are the crucial element in the success or failure of marriage. I am a very warm, forgiving and loving person by nature - a tiring but fulfilling role to fill too in a partnership and with children. This is not to say that I do not get tired and angry, difficult and emotional - I most certainly do! This is where the amazing patient and rational nature of my husband becomes the necessary balance in our marriage and he rescues us from arguments by being able to slow proceedings, he is so great. Is this conforming to stereotypes? Perhaps - I can’t say, but I love the way we work together. We can be mean to each other, but we are also wonderfully kind too. And we parent together, cook together, both work, both clean our home, garden - pick up where the other leaves off.

      All the fuss and nonsense I read above is simply the reason people are unhappy. True equality is not about gender, it is about compassion and humanity. It is about seeing your partner is tired and acting in a supportive way and knowing you can expect the same. We were standing in the kitchen last night, together, he after cleaning the dishes and I having put the children to bed, and we acknowledged that the most important thing still standing after seven years is the ability to laugh and chill out together. And it still comes naturally.

      To anyone wondering what will make them happy in their relationship - mindfulness and loving kindness. And that advice is for men AND women. For me, real feminism is the ability to be secure in the knowledge that I am educated, professionally employed and my husband’s intellectual equal, that i have rights as a person that are the same as his. To be an anti-feminist Josephine is to deny me these rights, and I find that line of argument completely irresponsible. Generations of hard work by strong women have given me that freedom and I do not seek to abuse it.

    • Violet Crumble says:

      09:59am | 29/11/10

      Go Celia! 

      I was all set to type my response but you have said it all and said it beautifully - “real feminism is the ability to be secure in the knowledge that I am educated, professionally employed and my husband’s intellectual equal, that I have rights as a person that are the same as his”. 

      That is exactly what feminism has acheived for us, and it wasn’t achieved easily - it was achieved through struggle and sacrifice and stubborness in the face of great opposition by courageous women and men who refused to accept that inequality should continue.

      The author is indeed “young” - she is too young to remember a world where that was not the case, or to recognise the importance of valuing the advances we have made. 

      Perhaps when she has more life experience she will see that it is only in an equal relationships that both parties can grow and flourish.  If a man is emasculated by being in an equal relationship, that is his problem, not his partner’s.

    • Sean says:

      09:07am | 29/11/10

      I really don’t blame this author’s peers for disagreeing with her.. There is one word that said here that stands out… Evolution… Surely both genders hold the capacity to be both nurturing and protective.. Our society has evolved to a stage where people can choose their gender roles based on their own personal traits and dynamics of their relationships.. Not all men are metrosexuals as not all women choose to stay within the workplace.. The key is that the choice should exist.. Relationships require ongoing work.. Just because there is now a wider variety of forms of relationships available in modern society that does not necessary mean that their capability to be effective has.. Modern couples now need to look at their own personal dynamics and see what works for them.. It was not too long ago when society worried that children of divorced couples would all be delinquents and be a nuissance to society.. I question whether the writer truly understands the extent of the reformations that have occurred as a result of the equal rights movement.. Not only did the feminist movement create awareness and more protection regarding issues such as domestic violence but also created a platform for later equality movements based on race, sexuality and socioeconomical status.. We are simply at a stage where we are evolving rather than being stagnated into the dark ages again.. I’m sure their are many countries in the world where human rights are violated that this author would be able to find what she is searching for.. I must say though that it is quite humourous reading this author’s article when they are writing from a role that would have only been available to her as a result of equal rights..

    • the trickster says:

      09:09am | 29/11/10

      “I don’t think that women should surrender their careers all together. But if we allow men to reclaim some power, we women could do more to embrace our femininity.”

      What an offensive statement, that only if you “if we allow men to reclaim some power”.
      Who do you think you are and as if women determine how much power a man should be allowed to have. What self serving rubbish.

      Maybe we men should say, we may allow women to work, we may allow women some choices…..and so on

      Clearly some of these feminist ideologies have poisoned some peoples minds

      Everyone seems to be running around trying to work out what feminists want or think, who cares. Nearly every feminist i have ever met has some very skewed view of the world and an attitude of entitlement… it is pathetic really

    • Andrew says:

      09:10am | 29/11/10

      7 little letters cover this whole issue, which is not really about men and women at all - it is about having this for each other: R - E -S -P-E-C-T

    • Melrusk says:

      05:44pm | 29/11/10

      Thank you.

      Given some of the comments posted so far, I was beginning to believe too many males on this discussion were incapable of seeing beyond genitalia.

    • free says:

      09:11am | 29/11/10

      Couldn’t agree with Gail more. I wildly disagree with the article, but won’t impose my views on your life either.

      I don’t want to be a fragile, elegant ‘lady’ gasping for male protection, I want to be a capable and strong person. I want my gender to be the last thing that defines my personality and I want other people not to assume things about me based purely on the luck of the chromosome draw.

      If that isn’t what you want, that’s fine. If you choose to partner with someone forever, good luck to you! If I ever get married it will be to a person who loves me for my strength and individuality. If you ever get married I hope it’s to someone who does the things you need them to do. If you crave protection you should seek it.

      Just don’t blame the staggeringly high rates of domestic violence on the aspects of feminism you dislike when study after study has shown us the reasons are incredibly complex. Read a scholarly article or talk to a social worker about what they experience every day. Don’t villify the struggle of our mothers and grandmothers, and the struggle of women today, to free themselves from cultural roles that constrict their choices. You may feel comfortable in a traditional gender role, but don’t force that on people who don’t.

    • spider says:

      09:12am | 29/11/10

      I would be happy if I could just choose to live my life without it being judged against my gender - judge me as an individual instead.  If my choices don’t make me happy, that’s just my mistake as an individual - not the mistake of letting me have those choices to begin with.  And I certainly wouldn’t appreciate having my choices narrowed down just because this journalist’s mate can’t get his head around the idea of standing up for himself - after all, if the genders are equal then he has an equal right to object openly to being talked to in the same tone of voice as the family pet.  He needs assertiveness and she needs tact; but the anti-feminist solution skips around that to suggest she needs to know her place (in the kitchen) and he needs to take over being the patronising bossy one.  Oh wow, that sounds like a great improvement.

      I don’t think Australia is a good example to look at for the success or failure of feminism.  We’re not exactly there yet.  There’s many a more progressive nation out there that would laugh at us saying “Oh look, gender equality just isn’t working for us here, let’s switch back.”  And even those are still only halfway towards the ultimate goal of both men and women being free to make their own choices without being confined to what’s considered manly/womanly and good by changing social tastes.

      As for playing to our natural strengths, as another commenter put it, it’s rather presumptuous to say that by stating one’s gender you can reliably know their personal strengths.  Would their strengths be the same if they’d grown up being taught to fix cars and go out late at night on their own?  The whole point of gender equality is to allow people’s individual natural strengths come through.  If a woman’s strength is housework and cooking, then good on her - those are good practical skills. But if her strength is maths and motorbikes, what then?  She can’t do that because her lack of femininity will endanger social stability and destroy the family?  If a man enjoys cooking for his family and not just for a restaurant of strangers (something never questioned as being unmanly) then isn’t that his natural strength?  Should a man who has the artistic skills of Renoir or Monet but can’t even use the toaster without breaking it really be made to feel less of a man because his strengths aren’t traditionally masculine?

    • Louis says:

      09:16am | 29/11/10

      Josephine your reference to giving back some of the ‘power’ to men shows the influence feminism has had on you too. Read the Book, ‘The myth of male power’ to understand just what a screwed up fiction that is. For example, mens ‘power’ to be conscritped for wars, mens ‘power’ where men still are 99% of employees in high risk employment, men’s ‘power’ to work until they die (yes, the absolute majority of men die before retirement) and unlike the increasing options for wives to work or not men have had no such change.

      BTW the author of book was once a prominent feminist high up in N.O.W. so it’s not an anti-women book he just realised how radical feminism had gone off track after trying to understand why more men weren’t supportive of the new feminism.

    • Raven says:

      12:55pm | 29/11/10

      I don’t see how those examples are robust refutations to the idea of male power.  Power in our societies is concentrated in the hands of a small ruling minority, but men form roughly half of the population.  Those with power are mostly male and traditionally have been so for a very long time. 

      Most feminists these days can acknowledge that it’s not just gender but also race and class that plays a role in social inequality.  Working class men are burdened by gender inequality too and many feminists are aware of the need to change this if we are to achieve equal standing in the community.  Already more men are finding they can choose to be the stay at home parent if they want - a role previously closed to men who are more likely to be shut out of their children’s lives than women are.

    • Liam Bailey says:

      09:20am | 29/11/10

      A real man’s masculinity is not threatened by strong women, rather, a strong woman and a strong man should make a stronger partnership!

      What a truly appaling article! It’s not well written, consistent, logical, rational, informative or helpful for anyone. It’s also complete hogwash. If male self esteem is related to power and forcing others into submission, then they are a species of dinosaur that will soon become extinct. Perhaps males should learn to value respect, equality, consideration, rather than demanding power and respect, rather than earning it.

    • hired goon says:

      10:26am | 29/11/10

      There is a difference between a strong individual and a bully.

      Bullies always see themselves as strong people “deserving” of this that and the other.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:21pm | 29/11/10

      Whilst I agree with your article, Liam, it’s your first sentence that sums up exactly the misconceptions driving half the morons in this thread to believe their balls are to be separated from them by women.

      It is also the biggest thing that we males have to realise: masculinity and one’s identity as a man is not the same as having power over the wife or earning a big wage.  We’ve lost this understanding.  That is why we feel (needlessly) threatened by feminism - because Australian men have yet to understand that what makes them men is not their wage or their fists, but their own gender and their own relationships with other men.

      Reclaiming our relationships with our fathers is an important part of this.  Many men have destructive emotional relationships with their fathers until late in life, if they ever rebuild them at all.  This relationship goes on to colour all of our relationships with other men, so it’s important we get this right.

    • Raynor says:

      09:21am | 29/11/10

      WOW. I think you completely missed the point of feminism, and could perhaps stand to look up the word “equality” in the dictionary.

      It’s not a competition, it’s not men vs. women. It’s about men and women having the same opportunities. There is no shame in being a stay at home parent, and there’s no shame in having a career, it about having the CHOICE to do either. Once upon a time, women had no choice (or very little). Now, you can be stay-at-home mom OR dad, or you can have a career, or a mix of both.

      Also, I seriously doubt that your friend Dave and the host of Top Gear are the best sources to draw on. I think perhaps the fact the average man can’t build a shelf these days (supposedly) has more to do with the fact that these days you can readily go out and buy one from Ikea for less than $50.

      I’m glad that I had parents who didn’t decide for me what was women’s work or what was men’s work and I was lucky enough to be taught to use a hammer and saw as well as a sewing machine. I think both boys and girls benefit from being taught these things, rather than dividing them by gender. I’m also very glad that I had a father who was very much present and affectionate without being a distant, macho breadwinner.

      I think if we really want to achieve true gender equality, people need to stop viewing gender equality as gender competition.

    • V says:

      09:24am | 29/11/10

      Women have cetain strengths and so do men and in addition all people are different.
      Women do deserve equal rights and that should not take anything away from men - it has nothing to do with that.  I say as people we should both use what we have to make our relationships better and stronger.
      I personally think that a lot of these issues i.e. divorce and people feeling inadequate may be resolved through more self awareness and this type of enducation happening in schools. When people know themselves well they may be less inclined to choose partners that are not suitable and have live a life of misery. Know your self, know what you want for your life and go find it.
      Josephine makes some good points but I don’t agree with all of the article. I think people are just people and should be treated equally in society but in terms of relationships - it can’t be one size fits all because people have different personalities, like different things and have different expectations of how their partner should be.

    • Craig says:

      09:24am | 29/11/10

      Modern feminist are hypocrites. And the line about women being bossy at home is spot on, my wife wants me to be her, but if I am to become her then what happened to me. All feminism has done is made women the boss, they are hypocrites.

    • Aaron says:

      09:25am | 29/11/10

      Women and men aren’t equal, never will be. They’re different. Of course everyone should have basic rights as well as things like voting and the option to pursue a career. That said, our laws are sexist, and so they should be. If we were to give women “Equal rights” say goodbye to sexual harassment and assault laws! One of my friends, aged 20 at the time, was a young male working and studying to set himself up in life. He went to church, helped out his friends where he could, one of the best people I know. Then, one day, one of his female workmates decided to accuse him of sexual assault! I never believed he did it, there was no evidence, and eventually, after a very expensive trial, having his face all over the front pages telling parents that they need to protect their kids from people like him, the girl in question finally admitted that she lied and just wanted attention! She screwed up his life, caused a huge amount of strain on his family, and left him with a massive lawyer debt that he couldn’t pay off. Thank God for his church, who all stood by him, and helped him out with repairing his public image, and helped pay his legal debt. Most people don’t go to churches, and probably don’t have the support community to help them out in such a situation, All at the whim of a girl who wanted attention. You want equal rights? You have equal rights, and there’s abuse of them! Of course, I know that not everyone is like that, but understand that a woman can ruin a mans life (quite literally ruin) with a simple, baseless accusation!

      As for the whole masculinity thing. About a year ago, being the crazy person that I am, I bought a hat and called it the “Chivalry” hat, and whenever I was wearing it, I had to be chivalrous to women (I say it like it was a chore, but it wasn’t, I just made it a rule so that the chivalry would stick, so that it wasn’t based on my whimsy). It was actually quite a hit, all the girls loved being treated with kindness and respect, not to say I wasn’t kind and respectful before, it just things like opening doors and letting them go through first, that kind of thing, (My girlfriend actually said it was one of the things that set me apart from the other guys, that and I liked “Firefly”).... Soon after, all my mates got chivalry hats, and the girls loved it. Chivalry isn’t dead, just forgotten. I say bring it back!

      As for women working, I’m all for it, I know that I’d go mad if I was at home all the time, but I think once kids are in the equation, then perhaps scale back from full time to part time, so as the kids aren’t ignored. What’s more important, the kids or money? You need money to support them, but hopefully you’ll have saved a bit during your early years, and then let the man do the bread-winning.

    • Aman2 says:

      09:26am | 29/11/10

      Well said Aman.

      I agree, feminism has provided some improvements to a man’s lot. I do the lion’s share of the housework, cooking, gardening, washing and maintenance in my household.  My partner and I split bills down the middle.  All I really need my partner for is for company, financial contributions and to have a child if we so desire. My partner has also promoted herself as a strong, independant woman, however sometimes she jokes that she would liked to be looked financially while she stays in and makes house (while complaining I don’t contribute enough) - well wouldn’t we all. Bottom line,  it won’t happen - in this age of equality the knife cuts both ways - if she doesn’t contribute 50% of the our living costs I have a legitimate grievance that she is not pulling her weight in the partnership (the new “housework” paradigm).  Dealbreaker.  Welcome to the age of post feminism.

    • Dave says:

      09:26am | 29/11/10

      Girls at the end of the day…

      The only reason you have any power… at all… is because a man signed a document allowing you to have it.

      Don’t get all cocky now… or we’ll TAKE it away!

    • bec says:

      09:53am | 29/11/10

      Dude, do you know how many dudes were murdered by their put-upon wives pre-feminism? Plenty of accounted-for cases, and probably many times more cases unreported. You take it away, and I can guarantee you a return to the happy days where we could slip little bits of mercury and arsenic into your supper with a smile on our faces and a song in our hearts.

    • awoman says:

      10:14am | 29/11/10

      Wow, this is scarily true!

    • Jayne says:

      09:26am | 29/11/10

      My father has spent my entire life at home cooking, cleaning, raising myself and my brother while he played in a few bands on the side. My mother has spent my entire life working full time in a job she loved, at various councils around Adelaide. The have one of the most loving, successful marriages you will ever see and have been together since they were 17. Dad has the dominant personality and so is more of a leader but Mum has always been the provider, although Dad manages the finances once they come in. Mum cooks the BBQ and Dad puts up shelves and changes light bulbs.

      Your article is WRONG. Men and women can have any role they want, it’s about individual characteristics not the characteristics of their gender. And it’s about finding the balance in partnerships and the roles that best suit each person.
      How dare society try and dicate what role I should play in the relationship I’m in or the role my partner should play. Shame on you for encouraging it.

    • Khrystene says:

      09:27am | 29/11/10

      I get and even agree with some of what you’re saying, but the title is ever so ‘ho hum’...

      Post-feminists are just so tediously predictable.

    • AdamC says:

      09:27am | 29/11/10

      Is there anything better than a battle-of-the-sexes post on a Monday morning? Bye, bye Mondayitis!

      A lot of the stuff here is silly. Josephine idealises traditional gender roles to within an inch of their lives, and my junk ‘scienceology’ (the weird amalgam of science and sociology) started going haywire almost immediately.

      However, the point she makes that is valid is that, increasingly, men are living in a world in which the rules are designed, not necessarily by, but for women. That includes rules in the workplace, in terms of general social interaction and, most particularly, in the area of family relations.

      Our current family law arrangements could best be described as sexist towards men. (They could also be described as a mental health disaster, but that’s another story.) They are not traditionalist, though they do require men to take financial responsibility for children. They are not ‘progressive’ because they sideline men as nurturers and carers of children. They are not fair, as they fail to compel mothers in the same punitive manner they compel fathers. They are, quite simply, anti-men.

      That may be a bit heavy, but it’s what I couldn’t help thinking about while I was reading the article. The emasculation of men is a far more profound process than Josephine suggests.

    • happily married feminist says:

      09:28am | 29/11/10

      How embarrassing for you, you’ve completely missed the point about feminism. Equality doesn’t mean sameness, it’s about recognising what we all do as having the same value. Would you prefer to go back to the days where the little woman stayed at home with the kids, being single at 28 would render you unmarriable? How about the days where women were too stupid to vote and their husbands owned them to do with as they pleased? Yeah feminism is awful, you’d be much better off without it.
      If Dave’s wife speaks to him like that, more fool him for putting up with it. My husband recognises me as his equal but I respect him a hell of a lot more for it, not less. Nothing sexier than a man who does his own ironing!

    • Mr GG says:

      09:35am | 29/11/10

      Feminism is a strange novelty, it cant last long we can already see that western men wont defend our culture (with violence) any more because we have had it drilled into us from childhood that violence is bad and to be pacifists. We’re taught to use words and not our fists to solve our problems, which I always thought was Ironic since we are also told ‘sticks and stone will break bones but words will never hurt me’, Obviously then the ones throwing sticks and stones will get the better of the one using words.

      Middle eastern Culture is spreading and they still posses the Violent Will that made Humans the top of the food chain, The fall of western culture is only what is natural since we have evolved an inefficient and ineffective form of society. Not that amazing it has happened a lot in Human History.

    • Ian says:

      09:37am | 29/11/10

      I think that Josephine has hit the nail on the head. Me and my partner have a very traditional arrangement, and it works well for us. Men and women are NOT equal, we are very different, that is not to say one or the other is inferior/superior, just not equal (read, different). In the same way you wouldn’t use a flat-blade screwdriver for a Phillips-head screw, unless you really had to, you cant use a man to be a woman and you cant use a woman to be a man. It just doesn’t work as well.

    • Peter says:

      09:37am | 29/11/10

      Beats me why so many people get so hung up on all this. No sane man would want to talk to someone who has gender hangups, let alone marry them. Also seems there are lots of people around who make really bad partner choices then wonder why their life is messed up. You can’t cure stupidity.

    • Miles says:

      09:38am | 29/11/10

      Men and women are equal but different.  The sooner we accept that each of the sexes is better at different things BUT we are both still of equal worth, the better of we will be.

    • Tika says:

      09:42am | 29/11/10

      Having equal rights to work and fair pay does not mean that I need to compromise my femininity nor my sexuality in any way. I still wear a dress and heels, I adore lacy underwear, I let a man open doors and I am an absolute kitten when it comes to my husband. Equality means that I just didn’t have to marry the first man I met at 17 and I gain the same independence, respect and freedom as my husband.

      Women today are able to be more adventurous and reach higher levels of fulfillment than ever before. Most importantly, we can still take care of ourselves in and outside of a relationship, giving us the financial strength to walk away from a bad relationship when we need to.

      My grandmother tells me that it was almost a certainty that a husband would cheat in her day. And why not? They were the sole bread-winner and their wives relied on them for their welfare.. So they could cheat and get away with it because their wives had no where else to go. My ex’s grandmother, told of how she stayed with her husband though he hit her… and their stories are not unique.

      My husband would never dare treat me this way, because he knows I wouldn’t stand for it for a second. I don’t have to. Conversely, he doesn’t need to put up with my bad behavior either.

      I agree, that physiologically, we are different. Women are made to be more nurturing and men more protective and that is ok. I still take care of the house and my husband takes care of the yard. I cook, he BBQ’s. We can be equal and still be a man and still be a woman. Equality doesn’t kill romance.. It incites passion, desire and respect. We don’t take each other for granted and we don’t need each other.. we want each other. Its a choice. Not circumstance.

      To address a few points in your article - If a woman talks to her husband, like she talks to the dog, this is not a problem with equality, she is just being rude. If a man feels less masculine for helping with the dishes, that is his problem. Dishes do not “maketh the man”. And if you truly bought into the 1950s notion of femininity, you wouldn’t have written the article. You would be at home with the laundry.

      Think about that.

    • Mulan says:

      10:15am | 29/11/10

      Agree. One of the reason why woman works is to protect themselves. When husband cheats on you, you can walk away and live independently. Some of the women don’t have this option and they need to live with their husbands’ infidelity. Men and women are different, equality doesn’t mean I don’t need a man anymore. Women still need men; I guess with this equality, women and men can respect each others better.

    • Rachel says:

      10:25am | 29/11/10

      here here tika! extremely well said

    • GE says:

      10:53am | 29/11/10

      Conversely, he doesn’t need to put up with my bad behaviour either – cannot disagree more with this statement.

      One of the biggest focus areas of MRA (Men’s Rights Activities) is the imbalance when a family unit breaks down. Specifically wrt Child Access and the distribution of the wealth/assets of the Family Unit.

      After 40 odd years of having Gender Equality at the forefront of the law making:-
      •  How did the current imbalance occur?
      •  Why aren’t those who created the situation held   accountable for creating such a biased situation, whilst operating under the banner of Gender Equality, taken to task?
      •  Why is the imbalanced not being corrected as a high priority?

      When analysing current relationship dynamics, there are 2 quite recent influencing factors that have NEVER occurred separately and hence the one causing the most influence cannot be accessed.

      The factors are 1. the post-feminist expectations of women and 2. the imbalance of power in the relationship that women have afforded themselves over the same time period.

      Without the second factor, which many believe is a poor reflection of women’s use of power, men would not have to put up with unreasonable expectations.

      In lay terms, men would not have to conform to rules touted as being Gender Equal, but to which they have no fair input in determining and based on ideals they may not believe in.

    • Nathan says:

      09:42am | 29/11/10

      The fight for women’s rights was hard won and well deserved.

      Modern relationships suffer from false expectations. People expect to fall in love in a way that is rare to find. Movie romance is not real life.

      Most Australians meet their partner at work or the pub. When I hear a woman say that there are no good men, if they are 30+ years old, they should be looking at themselves. Same goes for men. Yes I have a girlfriend and i’m 30+ and I have been single most of my life. All my fault though ‘cos I am a giant, selfish kid.

      Both sexes are messed up these days.

    • Cam-Berra(So clever) says:

      09:44am | 29/11/10

      This one’s gonna be a long post.  Be warned.

      Guys, Girls, In-Betweeners….I think the error being made in regard to this argument (and pretty much all arguments with a tendency to polarise demographics) is the trend for alot of folk, based purely upon a victim mentality driven emotion, to pick a side, alienating and villifying the ‘other’ in every respect.  I’m as much against the notion of labellling oneself an anti-feminist as I am against labelling oneself a feminist.

      We are all individuals. Dont let anyone (myself included) try to tell you how to feel, who to blame or what your given role is in any situation.  Even if you find numerous parallels between your life and anothers, this doesnt automatically require you to associate with ALL their philosophical doctrines.  Their life WAS different to yours, their reasons for feeling a certain way about a given topic, when scrutinised closley WILL be different. 

      Get off the bandwagon.

      There’s no need for a gender divide.  There’s no need to pick a team based on the tackle between your legs, using subjective evidence to back up a weak argument.  Take pride in yourself, your own story, strive for yourself.  Ignore the catch-phrase, media driven politics that’s consistently shoved in your face and try for some objectivity.

      Get on with the business of living and stop finding people to blame for your shortcomings, and you may just find that we all have a lot more in common when being ourselves than we ever had whilst trying to ‘belong’.

      PS - Human evolution has been always just that - evolving, it is never really static.  The very fact that gender roles have shifted, means that they were meant to shift.  Perhaps they’ll shift back, perhaps not, but lets not start labelling such changes as un-natural or against our physiological nature.  Perhaps, in certain ways things are a little in-equitable (from both points of view) but this is the great leveller.  The evolutionary pendulum swings left, it swings right, eventually it stops…until it gets another shove from Mother Nature.

      Enjoy the ride.  Stop with the hating.  Deal with your own issues.

      Essentially, harden the #$%& up people.

      Cam Out.

    • Jessie says:

      09:36am | 01/12/10

      Like.

    • LuckyMonkey says:

      09:45am | 29/11/10

      Such an ignorant view. No, feminism is not about women acting like men, it’s about women having a choice and having their choice respected. Some women prefer to focus on family and home, while others find more fulfillment in having a job. Some men will pursue a “good job”, while others will not succeed and it will help if their partner/wife contributes to finances. Life puts all genders into all flavours of situations, and at the end of the day it’s people’s needs that need to be respected, not pigeon hole them into kitchen and a CEO chair. Views like this demonstrate a simple and lazy mind that can’t think beyond black and white.

    • Ben says:

      09:47am | 29/11/10

      the problem with subjective opinions such as this one is that it can never apply to everyone. youre neglecting huge chunks of the population and sticking to stereotypical roleplaying which doesn’t exist. if a man is born with feminine attributes then what is he supposed to do? change who he is to reclaim this ideal of manliness? or what about in reverse for a masculine female? i grew up with a single parent (im a male) and was therefore forced to rely upon a female, not by choice but for survival. this upbringing is the cause of my demasculinisation and couldn’t have been helped. i now have a girlfriend who shares a completely equal relationship with me, we dont assign gender roles we just get things done. she is independent and would never appreciate a man trying to lead her, but so am i so our solution is to discuss matters rationally and not allow either to lead. im not “under the thumb” its my choice. the whole “under the thumb” thing only exists because alot of men want to go out on the weekend without their girlfriends, get blind drunk and explore other possibilities, which they feel they have some sort of right to do? i dont want to bring that kind of distrust into the mind of someone i love, but each to their own. everyone’s life is different

    • Melissa says:

      09:48am | 29/11/10

      I am doing research in gender differences and views like your article continue to make me sick. You are attempting to use evolutionary theories in a modern day world and it just does not work. Yes, men and women are fundamentally different both physically and psychologically. But to say that because men has more testosterone they shouldn’t do the dishes is utter rubbish.
      Your quotes and sources just demonstate your lack of research or understanding and such views continue to hold women in “their place”. Stop confusing equality in the workforce or the world with men and women being the exact same person. I may not have a penis, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be in a position of power, and just becuase you have a penis doesn’t mean that you should just be given power.
      I am sure you have some valid arguments for stereotypical gender roles in society, but this article has done nothing but demonstate your hypocritical views.

    • Jane says:

      09:49am | 29/11/10

      I suppose the author would also like to see the return of the ‘rule of thumb’ - where a husband could hit a woman with a stick no wider than his thumb…

      But seriously, there are many many men I know that support equality between men & women and do not feel emasculated by it.

    • GE says:

      04:58pm | 29/11/10

      Just another feminist myth!

      Instead of communicating in the female manner of telling emotional stories, communicate in a male manner (which should be occurring about 50% of the time since Gender Equality started 40 years ago) and find a book/document from the era that you claim this rule existed in, and show us men this -locked in time- proof supporting your claim.

      If you visit any MRA (Men’s Rights Activists) sites there will be a section dedicated to feminist myth busting. They basically follow the chain of feminist literature quoting/citing other feminist literature and follow the chain back to the source. The source, if one even exists, is then assessed to ascertain its credibility.

      From memory the source of this myth is suppose to be a definition in the Oxford dictionary from a few hundred years back, but low and behold no such entry could be found.

      Women should realise the seriousness of perpetuating these right brained, emotional myths which slander the male gender as you are effectively staking your personal credibility on information that left brained men are going to logically process.

      Just think of what you male peers responses to your conveyance of the myth :- emotional women who cannot differentiate something that physically happened from an emotional response that only occurred in her mind.

    • Brad says:

      09:51am | 29/11/10

      The plight of the feminist can be summed up in one add recently funded by womens rights groups. “To violence against women, Australia says no”. But they say nothing to violence against men. In fact they specifically only mention women. Hardly seems equal. What about all the men that are bashed every weekend.

    • R says:

      07:13pm | 29/11/10

      A) That ad campaign was funded by the federal government (Liberal at the time, the same government that introduced Shared Care laws so dear to mens rights groups)
      B) Being against violence towards women does not mean you’re not against it towards men, they are different issues or at least can be dealt as such
      C) Violence against women is a particular concern to society as women are more vulnerable to the effects of violence - more likely to be injured, less able to leave, etc - therefore, place more burden on hospitals, homeless shelters, etc
      D) Men who are bashed every weekend, as you put it, are most likely to be the victims of other males usually unknown to them, in domestic situations they’re most likely to be same-sex
      E) This ad campaign has been central to saving women and children from dangerous situations, so it’s irresponsible to belittle it
      F) Some men who are perpetrators of violence against women BENEFIT from ad campaigns such as this if they want to seek help, so it’s irresponsible to belittle it

    • AussieJazzman says:

      09:51am | 29/11/10

      I sincerely hope that, in the interests of genuinely pursuing anti-feminism, that the authour was paid only 73% of what a man would be paid for an article of the exact same length and quality.

    • Krista says:

      10:49am | 29/11/10

      One can only hope.

      Are you single? I think you and I should have a relationship that celebrates our inherent differences alongside our ability to respect each other.

    • Markus says:

      11:40am | 29/11/10

      I sincerely hope that, in the interests of not appearing very silly, everyone quoting the 17% pay ‘gap’ actually realised it does not refer in any way to work of the exact same length and quality.

    • AussieJazzman (not single) says:

      03:43pm | 29/11/10

      Markus, I call shenanigans, the 17% pay gap is controlled for length of work and is based upon work requiring similar qualifications.  Even the ACTU are capable of basic academic rigour from time to time.

      It is, in fact, relatively simple to control economic samples within a single to identify what pay differentials can be attributed to differences in job characteristics and which can only be attributable to employer discrimination, and most, if not all studies demonstrate that, on a macro level, gender pay differentials exist that can only be attributable to irrational discrimination (i.e. not based upon qualifications or other productivity attributes).

      In short, you’re making stuff up.

      Yes, I may have done a bit of labour economics at uni.

    • GE says:

      09:12pm | 29/11/10

      The wage gap takes into consideration qualifications and time ( Hours per week).

      On that premise every one who finished Grade 12 should get the same pay for a 40 hour week regardless of what they do.

      What an overly simple view of the situation. Unless a claim considers other pertinent factors such as responsibility, location (remote), danger, proximity (travel) I call shenanigans on the (silly ) claim.

    • Markus says:

      12:46pm | 30/11/10

      It is illegal to pay an employee less for the same work based on sex, race or religious belief. And from a purely capitalist point of view, why would any company would hire a man ever again as they could hire a woman for 17% less for the same job. Don’t think so.

      “the 17% pay gap is controlled for length of work and is based upon work requiring similar qualifications”
      The emphasis in this is on ‘similar’, not ‘the same’.
      Despite the claims of feminist lobby groups, a 3 year qualification in child care (for example) is in no way ‘similar’ to a 3 year qualification in a higher demand profession such as building, and as such does not demand the same pay rate.

    • Brad says:

      09:53am | 29/11/10

      Ahh, the Australian feminist.

      A hyphenated surname was your first warning. Failed marriage, hates men because of that, and wants to take us all down a peg. They don’t want equality, they want revenge.

    • Tony says:

      09:54am | 29/11/10

      Certainly a devisive issue, if these comments are anything to go on.

      Women should absolutely have the choice to do as they please. To enter and remain in the workforce as they see fit, before during or after pregnancy. There should be no instance where women are forced to do something against their wishes, definately not by men.

      Surely as we move into the 21st century society should be less about labels - Man, woman, black, white, gay, straight, christian, muslim, whatever - and more about ability.
      If a woman in a particular relationship has better earning power than the man, then logic dictatates that her working would be the most sensible thing, if the man wants to work too, great. The greater question in that scenario is, where are the kids? With a babysitter, or daycare, a nanny, the grandparents? Surely the development of the next generation trumps whatever self absorbed, insecure desire there might be to prove something to your spouse or your self, or worse, your mates. Children are the future. Whatever it takes to look after them emotionally and financially is more important than proving your masculinity, or your equality.

      All you have to do is get the job done, well.

      As for attacking the author, I for one value free speech…

    • Elle says:

      11:24am | 29/11/10

      I don’t remember anyone commenting that the author shouldn’t have been allowed to publish this piece. They are merely exercising THEIR right to freedom of speech.

    • VEE says:

      10:00am | 29/11/10

      When life were as simple as hunting and gathering, these physical role stereotypes fueled a simple well-being. Men and women are different than there innate nature from earlier days would suggest. If you actually look further back into history, these roles were shaped from these physical societal needs. During the rise of the church is when the oppression for women started, when men became power hungry. Every chance a woman had to be powerful and continuing nurturing her gender from there, was ripped apart by religions that felt threatened.

      Life changes, views change, technology changes, so does the need to ‘tend to the farm’, now that physical roles aren’t needed as much to ‘survive’ - those stereotypes in themselves become redundant. Women now only the past 60 or so years have broken away from the strength of gender oppression that became so ingrained in culture. These times were just a glitch in history.

      Josephine, by saying ‘until feminism’, seems condescending and offensive. You wouldn’t be writing this opinion if it weren’t for ‘feminism’.

      We are now part of a movement - to redefine ourselves, but that is all, ourselves as INDIVIDUALS.

      Shape yourself not on your gender but on your values and interests. 

      It’s about having accessibility and the smarts to make you’re own choice, learn from these choices, love and BE LOVED - this basically is all a child needs to know - that is the cycle.

      And use this to empower those around however consciously or not.

      It’s about creating a new start and new outlook on education, self belief and self love.THAT’S IT!

    • Olga Galacho says:

      10:01am | 29/11/10

      Does the author understand the implied infringement of basic human rights in her question: “Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal?” The author seems to have the meaning of “equal” confused with “identical” . Surely, the pursuit of equality is the birthright of every human being, whether they are male or female.

    • Brian says:

      10:11am | 29/11/10

      Wow. So there are girls out there with more traditionalist views… will you marry me?

    • Eleanor says:

      10:11am | 29/11/10

      Josephine, you’ve totally missed the point of feminism.

      It’s not about making it mandatory for women to re-enter the workforce, and forcing men to become househusbands.

      It’s about giving her the opportunity to choose. I’m a feminist, and I have nothing but respect for stay at home mums, as well as for women who go back to work. A woman should not be expected to hang up her career if she has a baby, and a man should not be expected to be the breadwinner.

      As for implying that fragility is an inherently female trait - some of the toughest people I’ve ever known have been women. My mum, for example, ran a household of three kids and a farm of some 100 odd acres while my dad was away working on the oil rigs in Bass Strait for two weeks at a time. Not only could she whip up a killer spongecake, but she’d also step up and give us kids a hiding or a cuddle if we needed it, and then would head outside and patrol with a .302 rifle for foxes and wild dogs, and had no reservations about butchering a beef cow for our own meat. She also found time in there for political activism and also being president of the school council for 12 years consecutively.

      She was feminine, yes, a great wife, yes, and a total inspiration and I’ll count myself lucky if I’m ever half the woman she is. I resent that you suggest ideally women should be fragile.

    • Tim says:

      10:22am | 29/11/10

      I bet none of the Australian woman here could last more than a year with a Japanese man. There is a reason why Japanese woman are considered SO ATTRACTIVE amoung many Western mans. That is being feminine! One who supports equality could argue all they want about it is unfair, and complain about men going for these more “feminine” women, but this is a fact of “nature” life. If you demand to be equal, and want to have the cake and eat it too, then the probability of finding a “satisfactory” man among the available pool would be much lower. No wonder why so many high career power woman are having trouble looking for a true love, but then complains about how men are listening to their “equality” needs.

    • Listvianka says:

      10:54am | 29/11/10

      Well said, couldn’t agree more. Men are attracted to feminine women who appreciate a man to do the men’s jobs. Why wouldn’t they?

    • Jade says:

      03:14pm | 29/11/10

      What you will find if you do some research is that Japanese men are now finding it difficult to find a wife, since Japanese women are becoming more reluctant to put themselves into the traditional Japanese roles. They want the career, they want the ability to work full-time without their career being disadvantaged and they want men to treat them as equals.

      You should look at the rise of Husband Schools in Japan - places where the men are going to learn to iron, cook and do housework, as women are less and less likely to accept men who expect these things.

    • bec says:

      05:00pm | 29/11/10

      I’ve lasted with mine for ten years. Sorry to break up your poor relationship with reality.

    • Niente says:

      10:23am | 29/11/10

      Are you for real? Two wrongs don’t make a right.
      1. Men should not be relegated to providers, as if that’s the only role they are good for and if they don’t provide they are failures and not a man. It’s this sort of outdated societal expectation which still causes discord and tension, leading to depression and worse.
      You also insult the many stay-at-home dads who do a wonderful job caring for their kids.

      2. By advocating women return to ‘traditional’ roles, you are promoting legalised slavery. This may come as a surprise to you but I know women who are married, have kids, work and still remain very feminine and their husbands are still in love with them.

      Relationships should be about teamwork, supporting each other and promoting each other’s strengths, regardless of gender.

      I guess the fact that you are a ‘young’ anti feminist explains your ignorance of the fact you enjoy the life you do now because of the battles and sacrifices made by the women who came before you.

    • HB says:

      10:26am | 29/11/10

      I think this opinion (which is what this is) is valid.  In my opinion the feminist message is that women are equal to men and should be given the same respect and voice in society.  This does not make us the same and “gender roles” should no be a dirty word.  If we are the same then men should be able to give birth too.  The simple fact is we are no the same and we should be embracing the things that make us different and celebrating the fact that together our individual strengths make us, as a unit stronger.  This opinion highlights that in society today relationships are failing under the weight of equality when they should be thriving under respect for each other as men and women.  If our relationships are successful then our society is stronger.  This opinion does not lay blame on any one gender but on society as a whole.

    • Jenna says:

      10:26am | 29/11/10

      There is no longer any Feminism it is Feminism’s PLURAL people!! The days of radical bra burning women is over and is now only taught in history class! The same manta that has been spun since before I was born has been neatly placed in the back of the glory box with the other useless items that a women would dare not use! Today a woman can be what ever the bloody hell she wants & she does not need to conform to an American middle class WHITE political ideology from my mothers generation!! Gender is a small part of how we identify ourselves it is not the be all and end all!! I am not a feminist and there is no but after that sentence!! I am an Australian, I am a mother, daughter, sister, grand daughter friend and girlfriend. I am an employee and a student. & yes I happen to have been born with a vagina which places the label of woman far on my forehead! But if we removed the biological (as in the vag the boobs and the other girly bits) there is nothing that universally defines me alongside any other woman!! We are all different & if i wanted to be “equal” to a man I would go to a plastic surgeon & have a penis sewn on to my body!! I do not want to be equal to ANYONE else in this world!! I want to be ME that’s it no one else!!

    • Rachel says:

      03:59pm | 29/11/10

      The mantra that women are equal to men means that women’s value is equal to men’s value, not that men should equal men or whatever craziness you’re talking about. It was started because traditionally, for lack of a better term, women’s contribution and value were seen as inherently inferior to men’s.
      I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about ditching the middle class white ideology. It has to move on from there and become more encompassing. Feminism and gay rights activism is essentially about the same thing. The two movements should amalgamate.

    • LifeOnMercury says:

      10:26am | 29/11/10

      I am also a 29 year old female, and completely disagree with this article.

      Frankly, the thought spending my days sitting meekly at home, cleaning up after my husband, and having to ask his “permission” every time I wanted to use some of “his” money to buy myself a cup of coffee or a new lipstick, depresses me.

      I love having a career. I enjoy the mental challenge, the intellectual cut-and-thrust or my work, and the knowledge that I am making a positive impact on society that extends far beyond just a small handful of close family members.

      However, I also enjoy wearing pretty dresses, arranging flowers, and cooking delicious meals for my husband and myself. Funnily enough, my independence does not compel me to speak to my husband like a dog. I think “Dave’s wife” was not being a feminist, but simply a rude person.

      The writer of this article seems to think that femininity and financial/social power are mutually exclusive. In my experience, this is not the case at all.

    • Rusty says:

      10:30am | 29/11/10

      What a breath of fresh air, a feminine feminist.!!!!  In the final analysis, wars will test our mettle as a nation of wimps or a nation of men.  Evolution will give the thumbs up or down when next we are tested as we surely will be.  What we think is largely irrelevant. Fewer numbers of men being born.  Those who are are largely wimps with little incentive or capacity to fight.  Since most of our potential adversaries are nuclear armed, it will come down to highly incentivised men on the ground with the ability to fight and something personal and precious to fight for.  Don’t like our chances.  Better buy a head scarf ladies.

    • Dylan says:

      04:07pm | 29/11/10

      I’m pretty sure from here on in technology will give the thumbs up or thumbs down ‘next we are tested’ lol. We’re kind of past the point of hyped up dudes running at each other in fields.

    • Rusty says:

      05:37pm | 29/11/10

      Unfortunately Dylan, thats what they thought in WW1, the War to end all wars, remember?  Again in WW2, another war to end all wars.  Then Vietnam, 50% of whom were dudes from civvy street, just like you.(conscripts)  No Mate, wars are fought by young civilian men in Army Garb.  No one will have the Kahunas to go the technological route. They’ve had many opportunities since Japan.

    • Bob says:

      10:31am | 29/11/10

      Josephine, great and well thought out article. Don’t get discouraged by the misinformed, selfish and foul mouthed “feminists” posting here. Men and women aren’t equal and never will be. Coming from a non-western society I’ve seen that women can work (well, had to, in order to help the man support the family),have a career, be treated by men with respect and remain cultured and feminine at the same time.

    • Cloud Strife says:

      10:53am | 29/11/10

      What the hell is wrong with you??

    • Mick says:

      10:58am | 29/11/10

      Whenever a debate gets polarised everyone seems to get caught up in the drama and forget about the other options available. This article isn’t about the differences and similarities of the two genders or about the quality of Josephine’s research, it’s about social expectations and peer pressures and how they influence our decision-making in our male/female relationships.

      It seems that there are a lot of confused (and often angry) people in the world, then someone like Tika speaks out and we can breathe a sigh of relief to know that there are people who believe and practice Common Sense, people who don’t get caught up in the drama created by the majority of commercial media and people who keep their cool and contribute a third option in a polarised debate.

      Many relationships are damaged or inhibited by social expectations and the pressure of peers or apathy towards the subject. I challenge you to use Common Sense and challenge the status quo. Read the article and responses, disregard the drama, question the current roles of Men and Women in today’s society, add a little Common Sense, and decide what would work best for you and your peers in your male/female relationships and, most importantly, set an example for your children when you act on your decision.

      I believe Tika’s children will grow up clear-minded and confident and develop the skills required to successfully navigate the challenges that arise in relationships during their lives, simply because their parents show Common Sense and how to see the third option in a polarised debate.

      I believe the feminist movement made two major contributions to society.

      Positive: Challenged people to question the status quo regarding gender roles to consider different ways to improve the quality of living for women.

      Negative: Created a society (Western world) of soft men and hard women resulting in confusion for both genders about how to engage in and nurture their relationships.

      I suggest we keep trying and pay more attention to people like Tika.

    • bella starkey says:

      10:59am | 29/11/10

      29 isn’t that young… just sayin’

    • Jenny says:

      11:00am | 29/11/10

      Cleary this woman has no idea what feminism is.

    • Weary says:

      11:10am | 29/11/10

      It’s pretty simple really.  Just think for yourself.  It’s not relevant what others in society are doing - just look at the divorce statistics.  Do what YOU want and be who YOU want.  It’s like music.  Just cos everyone else is listening to Britney Spears and her albums always top the charts doesn’t her music isn’t crap.  Even if a billion people endorse it - it’s still crap.  If you want to be a housewife then do it - let everyone else go to the Britney Spears show just cos all their friends are, and they can try to figure out how they ended up in a place where people pay to watch a puppet mime.

    • Meg White says:

      11:13am | 29/11/10

      I just finished reading this article when I came across a news piece on the mating habits of ducks. It proved strangely relevant.

      “The duck vagina is very complex,” Rossellini explained. “I was surprised to learn that the female duck can direct the male’s penis to do whatever she wants. If she doesn’t want to get pregnant, she blocks it. It’s her choice.”
      (http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/article/isabella-rossellini-weirded-out-by-duck-sex/19725928)

      In short: ducks.

    • Tom says:

      11:17am | 29/11/10

      I don’t know what’s more worrying - the fact that you don’t appear to know how feminism works, or the fact that you don’t appear to know how evolution works.

      In future, kindly refrain from using terms whose meaning you don’t know.

    • bec says:

      11:21am | 29/11/10

      Inconceivable!

    • Jessica says:

      11:37am | 29/11/10

      Hear hear.

      I particularly love (hate) the comment about not wanting to squash a man with your high heels, as though that is what feminism is about.

    • Shama says:

      12:26pm | 29/11/10

      @Jessica, it is even more ironic when you think that high heels are normally worn by women who think they can be empowered by a Jimmy Choo, aren’t feminists normally berated for arguing against them??!!

    • Kika says:

      11:19am | 29/11/10

      I agree with the article to a point. However, I strongly believe that for the majority of women out there them stepping up into a more masculine role has nothing to do with feminism. If it does I doubt they wouldn’t be thinking about it too much.

      Why is it just our fault? Men these days don’t want to be men either! Plenty of young men I know would be petrified to take the responsibilities men of my fathers and grandfathers generation had to. My grandfather was a father by 21. He was considered a man. These days 21 year old men are still ‘boys’. Not one of my friends at that age would have been mature enough to be a responsible father at that age. They were still boozing, floozing and carrying on like they were still on a perpetual schoolies week.

      All my life I have always wanted to be a mother. And if I could be a stay at home Mum, I would in a second. My mother was a working Mum and it sucked for her as much as it sucked for my sister and I. And even with her working we still struggled. So I have always wanted to be at home for my kids. Until they are at least in high school. But I haven’t had that chance. My husband doesn’t want to have kids and is content with our lives as being DINKS living in an inner city apartment. We have a fur baby. And most of the caring responsibility for her comes down to me.

      But I reckon the issue goes down to these main things
      1. There are not enough men in primary school education these days, so young boys are feminised from a young age. The education system is heavily female biased
      2. There is an expectation placed on all kids at high school that they must go to university to be a success at life. Studying keeps the brain immature “young”. In the olden days people would study, get a job then think about being an adult. Some people don’t get to this point until they are in their 30’s
      3. University life only encourages an adolescent lifestyle of partying, drinking, socialising and because most uni students are fairly cash poor they don’t have the money, time, resources to step up and take care of a family
      4. Lots of men don’t want to ‘settle down’. I think women do, but a lot of men dont. In the past there was an expectation that after school people would form relationships, settle and have kids. Because there is no expectation for anything anymore I think men believe they can get away with being bachelors for longer
      6. Because the man won’t step up, the woman of the house has to. Who else is going to?
      7. Because of the rise of feminism (for both men AND women) women have just as much pressure at home, study and work as men do so they go out and drink their stress away. Hence the rise of the ladette. If you don’t get attention from men the way you are, you certainly get attention from them by trying to act as they do.

      All in all I can only say that the issue runs both ways. In my life 2 of the main relationships I have had the men haven’t been comfortable with the idea of being a ‘traditional man’ and I have had to compromise for that. I would love to be the ideal housewife, but instead society has pressured me into being a crazy cat-career-woman. And if my husband would prefer to sit on the couch I will take the bin out for him. Sorry.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:50pm | 29/11/10

      @ Kika ... can I very, very hesitantly note how you described your early life in another post, and how, with greatest respect, your experiences with your mother and father have influenced your views of men generally?

      You mentioned in the other post that your mother was mother and father, if I can put it that way.  Just out of interest, take a look at your statements there and compare them to what you’ve said here.

      Can there be any more doubt that the way a father behaves has an influence on his daughters as well as his sons?

      Important P.S.: I completely agree with you there aren’t enough men in the primary school system, or indeed in the school system generally.  Boys need lots of positive male role models other than their fathers. 

      But I tend to think that the disconnect that most men have from each other as well as from their fathers is actually the author of most of the issues you’ve enumerated.  If boys have strong, positive male role models they tend to emulate them throughout their lives, just as they emulate the poor role models who are more and more crossing their paths.

    • Jennifer says:

      11:25am | 29/11/10

      I stopped reading when she said “the different qualities.” Gender essentialism arguments are always based on theorems that have not been established. You cannot prove that alleged gender differences are anything but cultural until you take a sample group of kids and raise them in a vacuum with no taint of culture or contact with humans who have been brought up in culture, and then observe, oh my, all the girls like pink and all the boys like blue.

      And you’d find they don’t. There are tons of people who feel natural inclinations to buck culture and behave in ways that don’t conform to their gender norms. Gender essentialists always claim we’re “exceptions”, and usually when pressed suggest we must be psychologically damaged or culturally confused else we’d be acting like “real men” or “real women.” But they never have proof for it.

      I mean, similarly, I could say everyone arguing gender essentialism is just confused and should be ignored. Or all members of a political party are just confused. Or all members of a religion, or all atheists… you see how it goes, and what the real goal of this kind of thinking is.

      Someone needs to take high school geometry again. Exceptions disprove the rule, unless you can explain the factor that caused them to happen *despite* the rule.

    • hired goon says:

      01:59pm | 29/11/10

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11814300

      Health Check: The boy who was raised a girl

      ================

      The funny thing is, people who tend to argue on one hand that our gender identity is as a result of cultural conditioning will argue that sexuality (which is an essential component of our gender identity) is something that is innate, that we’re born with.

      I struggle to understand how you can “teach” someone to stop being homosexual any more than you can “teach” them to be heterosexual. Such people live outside what is considered “normal” behaviour, yet it is accepted to say (and rightfully so) that it is something people are born with.

      Are our sexuality and gender identity so separate that they are determined by two totally different factors?

    • bec says:

      02:33pm | 29/11/10

      I think, Hired Goon, that there’s a distinct difference between performance and identity. Trans advocates have consistently pointed out that they are all people who were raised and encultured a certain way and yet still identified as the other gender.

      Maybe it’s a situation where our identity is partially biological and born with us, but how we choose to express this and to what degree is also determined by culture and personal inclination, given that there are global variations of what is considered “feminine” or “masculine”.

      I am in no doubt that I am a woman and I am privileged enough to have what I am biologically match up with what I feel psychologically. How feminine I act, however, is up to the culture I live in and personal choice.

    • Shama says:

      11:27am | 29/11/10

      Yawn, the 1950s, Phyllis Schafly-we need someone in every generation carrying that flag.  All this hand wringing is nothing new. And guaranteed to increase page views.

      Also surely you meant renowned fame whore Australian neurosurgeon. Mr Teo give it a rest.

    • Mike T says:

      11:27am | 29/11/10

      The one that strikes me as odd is that men are starting to look like women and vise versa.

      Has anyone noticed the young 18 year old boys with the chicken legs, pigeon chests, skinny wastes and Buffont hair styles that are now the new sex symbols??  On the other side of the coin thier seems to be amazonian women sprouting from the street with enough junk in the trunk to make Jo-Lo weep with envy.

    • Dru says:

      03:23pm | 29/11/10

      That is just fashion. It has been fashionable before, it falls in and out of fashion.

      I like the skinny boys and amazonian women.  And the women that look like skinny boys and boys that look like amazonian women.

    • Ben says:

      11:30am | 29/11/10

      Josephine, thanks for your article; while I can’t agree with 100% of it, I appreciate the thought processes behind it.

      My wife recently stopped working (in a very male dominated, tough, industry).  We make do with one (good) income, and she loves being a homemaker.  I enjoy providing for her.  Don’t knock it til you try it.  Just because society says everyone should work, 40+ hours a week doesn’t mean its quality of life.

    • Ray Graham says:

      11:37am | 29/11/10

      History will judge us poorly for feminism. The premise upon which it is built is a fabrication with past events twisted to provide an opportune argument. You can see by the comments of Marley and cohorts that women are a lost cause. Marley, I doubt you could turn on a tap let alone a bloke. Your idea of turning on a bloke would be the same self centred conceit from which definitions of optimism eminate. ie ’ hoping your wife moves while having sex’.

      The past which feminism hangs it’s hat on is usually by misrepresentation and out of context. eg that women after marriage were asked to resign from public service and other jobs. The social consideration here was to make more families with one income at the expense of others with two incomes - no discrimination. Probably just a poor attempt to make it go round for all. A person could say the one discriminated against was the one with no choice other than to work. The one killed in the wars. The one with no quality time with the kids. That’s twisted to say men didn’t want time with the kids.

      Thing now is if men are successful as say lawers it’s discrimination. A different approach , albeit from left field in today’s society, may be that men be praised for their achievements and given credit. Now that WOULD provide social meltdown

    • Barbie says:

      11:38am | 29/11/10

      Males and Females are not equal. We are different and “Viva la Difference.” That difference should be celebrated. In a family it is important to give children and each other the things that money cannot buy. That is time and nurturing. If more time was devoted to the family needs, there would be less dissatisfaction, less breakdown of marriages and better looked after children and less social problems. So my fellow females, put your full time careers on hold while you are raising a family, focus on nurturing and the rewards will be far beyond anything that money can buy. You have the power.
      “Viva la Difference.”

    • Kika says:

      11:43am | 29/11/10

      Also… who’s to say women were content with their roles back in the 60’s and 50’s etc? My Grandmother was not happy and my Grandfather flipped when he found out my Grandmother got her licence and a job. He saw it as a blight on himself for not being able to support his family properly. She saw it as being a valued contributor to their family. My great-grandmother was a flapper, left her husband and kids back in the 40’s and went to live across the other side of the country.  The whole basis of the anti-feminist thing is that they reckon women were content with their roles prior to the advent of ‘women’s lib’ when plenty of cases in my own family prove that this isn’t the case.

    • Ray Graham says:

      11:59am | 29/11/10

      The point is KIKA are men or have men ever been happy with their roles. They just get on with it. Feminism they see as an imbuggerence, so stuff it. See women much the same. An imbuggerence if you want kids.

    • bec says:

      12:44pm | 29/11/10

      If they’re not happy, or if they haven’t been, then they should change it, Ray.

      And what is an “imbuggerence”?

    • St. Michael says:

      03:12pm | 29/11/10

      @ Kika: see my comments further down the thread.  I didn’t see this one until I’d already done responses to your two later ones.

      Your Grandfather identified himself as not being able to provide when your grandmother decided to work and get her licence.  That is part of the perverted view of masculinity that I mentioned further down below.  Masculinity is not your job, but much more.  I’d love to have known whether he had a lot of close male friends and whether he drank a lot?

    • notsurprised says:

      11:59am | 29/11/10

      I’m not convinced these arguments can be entirely blamed on feminism considering the rise of the “Self” and the ensuing increase in selfish behavior in today’s society. Anyone of either sex can become infected with the, “Its all about ME” disorder, observe it in any public place. The differences between man and woman should be acknowledged and respected, both ways.

    • B. Andersons says:

      12:01pm | 29/11/10

      Interesting that with all the equality that has come to women the best chefs are stil men, the best fashion designers are men, the best hairdressers ,makeup artists, sportsmen, athletes, writers artists, the list is endless are all men!!!! Women what have you achieved apart from putting a dopey redhead into power? Women should get their acts together and see if they can even come close to achieving what men have over the centuries. Men can feel proud of themselves and shouldn’t allow the Germaine Greers of this world to undermine what and who they are and their extreme importance to our world. The young boys of today will not thank feminists for the way they have undermined male importance to society. Women need equality of opportunity to follow their dreams but not at the expense of our other halves.I’ve never felt the need to disparage men to feel better about myself. We are all important in the scheme of things, except that men have contributed a thousand times more to civilization than women have. So respect them for their contribution.

    • St. Michael says:

      12:04pm | 29/11/10

      So: in support of her argument that feminism is about cutting blokes’ balls off, Ms Asher chooses three “experts”:

      (1) Charlie Teo.  The source of the quote is a 60 Minutes show.  I saw that interview.  It’s debatable whether he meant that quote in earnest; even he winced as he said it.  Charlie is also a neurosurgeon, not a psychology, psychiatrist, or even ob/gyn specialist.  By what right or training is he claimed as an expert on gender differences or internal happiness? Let’s remember—though I’m a fan of Dr. Teo’s work, he’s brilliant at *what he does*—he’s a bit of a renegade by medical standards and he believes mobile phones cause brain tumours.  He also grew up with a distant, performance-obsessed family (his disclosure) and I’d prefer a closer interview with his kids to see if they prefer a hands-on father or not.  Medically, he is a miracle worker with the brain, no doubt about it.  In terms of personality and beliefs, he’s to be pitied.

      (2) James May.  This would be the wooly-headed one from Top Gear who is usually the butt of Clarkson and Hammond’s jokes, correct? Again, qualifications? Is he anything other than a caricature of the Baby Boomer, testosterone-filled male?

      (3) David Deida: a quick Google search and look at his own website reveals this guy to be an American ‘spiritual teacher’ who bombed out or did not complete his PhD.  Only qualifications are: “University of Florida with a bachelor’s degree (BA) in Theoretical Psychobiology (combining psychology, biology, neuroscience, and computer science)”... WTF? ... and a Masters in Biology.  Hasn’t conducted any academic research since 1989.  Been a follower of several “controversial” religious teachers as well.  Interesting source.  And not an expert.  He’s just a more modern Anthony Robbins by the looks of him.

      That really all you got, Ms Asher?

      Do yourself a favour and read some Steve Biddulph.  He’s Australian and he’s had a handle on the “male role in the feminism debate” issue for more than 20 years, yet as usualy most people don’t bother to look at his work at all.  Key point from his books: men suffered under the pre-feminist system as well.  They were forced into brutal, unfeeling roles where they weren’t permitted to have close emotional relationships with other adult men; it was part of the conditioning the Baby Boomers and the generations before them pushed on our male children.  Other men are not threats, and we do not have to compete ruthlessly with them.  It is not about allowing men to reclaim some power, it’s demanding that we—men—now confront the issues within ourselves that the feminist movement has exposed.

    • bec says:

      12:38pm | 29/11/10

      *applauds*

    • No Name says:

      12:06pm | 29/11/10

      Men have all the power they want already and have had!  Look at all the hookers they can have .  Men can still breed into thier 70’s even.  And they can root or marry women half their age!  Can women do that?  NO! 
      Men have all the power! And they have even more today.  Look at all the brothels galore and strip clubs flourishing!  No wonder their is now a high divorce rate.

    • Anna Myers says:

      12:25pm | 29/11/10

      Why are the comments that are anti-female published?
      Not many that tell it the way women experience life ie it’s all pro male and anti female: men get the top jobs - even today, the top pays, the promotions and women are not considered for much else than gheto low wage jobs.

    • Kam says:

      12:27pm | 29/11/10

      It is a middle class dream that women did not work before the introduction of “feminism”. Working class familes most often had two working parents to simply meet the needs of the family. Both my grandmothers worked through the 1930s and 40s, as did my mother during the 1960s (on a night shift in a chicken factory - when my father got home from work). That feminism meant that those women had some chance at equal pay and better conditions is a cause to be celebrated.
      Nurturing, quality time with the children, bit of home maintenance - all good skills for both sexes.

    • Genevieve says:

      12:37pm | 29/11/10

      Wow, after reading this, I just want to drop out of law school, go get a part-time job at Coles and dedicate my life to finding the perfect man. And then when I find him, I can give up working, and dedicate my life to cooking, cleaning and childbearing. I can hardly wait!

    • Em says:

      12:39pm | 29/11/10

      I did not agree with this article at all! The reason feminism came about was because women did not have choices about how they lived their lives. They were stuck being the housewife. Nowadays if women want to be ceo’s or doctors they can. If they want to be housewives they can too but hey have more of a choice to do so, just like men. To say feminism has ruied relationships and mens ego’s is only arguing that men are not happy as they are no longer in a position of dominance over women and that it somehow threatens their masculinity. I think that all women want is to have equal options and equal positions of power. No more, no less.

    • dave says:

      12:45pm | 29/11/10

      I think that the feminist movement was originally instigated to increase the tax base of governments (more workers) as well as driving economic growth (more people with income). This agenda was easily established with distractions of ‘liberation’ for women.

      The comments above highlight the fallout of this agenda. Women want to be liberated in the workforce (sounds crazy doesn’t it) - but can’t collectively shake the mothering urge. Men feel castrated to the traits that served the tribe well for centuries. These changes have all occurred in two generations.

      Economic growth due to women’s liberation has nearly run it’s course. The lasting outcome is that we all equally get to be wage slaves…and our kids have no clear gender specific role models.

    • Kika says:

      02:09pm | 29/11/10

      Well, my mother and father both worked. My mother cooked, cleaned, cared for my sister and I, did all the handywork, changed the light bulbs, put the bins out, got the car serviced, everything. She even did carpentry when required. My dad? Went to work. Was stressed at work. Came home and drank. Did he want to be a husband? No not really. Did he want to be a father at 27? No he definitely didn’t want to be. Was he comfortable in stepping up to be a man and not a man-child? No.

      But I knew the difference between a man and a woman. My mother did all of those things because my Dad wasn’t comfortable with his role as being man, protector, provider, father. He can’t even change a light bulb. Did my mother purposely wean Dad out from his masculinity and did those jobs because she wanted to? No way! She did them because if she didn’t nobody would. But the problem was she sat there and let him sit and drink beer while she scuttled around the house doing everything because she still had that 1960’s home economics brain in her head.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:42pm | 29/11/10

      @ Kika: not trying to analyse your personal circumstances, and not trying to apologise or make excuses for your father, but it strikes me that your Dad sounds as much a victim of the 1950s-1960s system as women were.

      Can I hazard a guess that he was the second or less-favoured son of the family? What was your grandfather like to him (not to you)—was your grandfather a drinker himself? Spent a lot of time away from home? Did he work in rural districts, or was he a factory worker?

      A few wild guesses here: if your Dad was a father at 27 in the 1960s or so (I’m guessing here) that would prrrobably put him born around 1933 or so.  Assuming your grandfather was, say, 21 or so at the time, and therefore born at roughly the turn of the century—1900, 1910 or so.  Those were very, very hard times, especially for those who were war veterans or who lived through the first World War—lot of refugees were really mentally scarred by it, as they were with World War 2.  And your grandfather presumably would have lived through the Depression, as well—it was bad here in Australia as well as everywhere else.  Very bad times to be a father or a son, too: you were expected to display no emotion, to carry on and not cry, to “be a Man about it all.”  The old stupid English stiff upper lip and all that.

      The point I’m making is that your grandfather could only parent and bring up his son with that perverted form of paternal programming, which is the cold disciplinarian perspective and which is not the loving father/son relationship that should be in place.  That marks men’s relationships right the way down through the generations—and the alcohol is often the only way men can feel comfortable with their emotions in particular and express them without inhibition.

      I see you were one of two sisters.  Be glad you didn’t have a brother in these circumstances, because I’d lay dollars to doughnuts you’d be watching the cycle repeat itself.

      On the other hand, again, not trying to remove responsibility from your father, but there’s one point to take up from your post: that he wasn’t comfortable with his roles as “man, protector, provider, father.”  You then mention your Mum didn’t “wean him off his masculinity”.  Respectfully, I think this is misreading the problem.  Masculinity—real, healthy masculinity—encompasses those four important roles you mentioned.  A lot of men don’t know *how* to encompass those roles because they’ve lacked the programming or training.  And your father didn’t want to be a father.

      Very gently, and again I hope without offence: have you considered the possibility he might have just been damned afraid of being one because of his own upbringing, because of his own fears? Have you considered the idea part of the reason he never took up his responsibilities was because he never had a proper male role model? Would I be very far off the mark if I guessed he didn’t have many close male friends that he could be really open with?

      If I’m right on some of those—I hope I’m not, I hate to engage in stereotyping—but your father is as much a victim of the system before feminism came along as he is a propagator.  That does not excuse his crimes, but with our parents it’s as important to understand them as it is to learn from their mistakes.

    • Adrienne says:

      12:46pm | 29/11/10

      Wow, there is a lot of strong feeling about this issue!  I feel sorry for many of you who have obviously been treated poorly by your partners and now hate people of the opposite sex.  Not every woman speaks to their husband like a dog, not every man is a cheating, brothel lover. There are many decent men and women around.  It is true, men and women are different, but that does not mean they need to be unequal and unhappy.  We each have strengths and weaknesses and that is where we can complement each other.

      The problem occurs when we try to pigeon hole people into set roles. Instead we should let people be who they are.  If a man wants to be masculine, let him!  If a woman wants a career and doesn’t want to raise a family, let her!  That is the beauty of the time we live in, people can be who they are.  The key then is to find a partner who shares a similar vision as you and with whom you share mutual respect.  Then go live your lives and be happy. 

      Don’t hate each other men and women - rather, be honest with yourself, know what makes you happy and don’t let anyone force you to be something you aren’t.

    • Dino the Dinosaur says:

      05:24pm | 29/11/10

      I find all of this gender role and male vs female stuff rather suprising in 2010.
      I worked in the roofing industry before joining the Army Medical Corps.

      After leaving the Army, I got a job in a hospital, and eventually studied Nursing, coming top of the class.

      Due to a permanent back injury, I had to give up Nursing.

      I’m now employed as a Ward Clerk, a feminine role, as was Nursing (traditionally).

      But I’m a bloke!

      And ride a Harley!

      And drink beer.

      And have tattoos (a mistake).

      I don’t feel inadequate as a male working in a traditionally female role.

      I get paid the same as my female co-workers.

      This business about unequal pay are rubbish IMO. If I wanted to work as a nail artist, should I be payed the same as a concreter?
      I think not!

      The Nurses I work with are no shrinking violets when it comes to standing up for their rights, but are also feminine and ladylike, (mostly!)

      Just because I stand up to urinate, doesn’t really make me much different to my female friends and associates.

      It’s all about diversity!

      Just my two cents worth.

      Dino

    • Richard says:

      12:47pm | 29/11/10

      Thankfully we’ll be swamped with muslims due to the government’s lax border security policy. Then sharia law can be implemented to do away with this feminism menace once and for all.

    • Debbe says:

      12:48pm | 29/11/10

      Oh for the days when a man was able to be the sole bread-winner, and the wife was able to stay home and raise the children, if that was what they desired.  A large part of the problem is simply that those days are long gone, and now just surviving takes 2 incomes, let alone if there are children involved.
      I personally would love it if we could afford to have kids, and I could stay home with them until they went to school, then return to part-time work.  Unfortunately that’s not going to happen, so that messes with the natural course of male / female roles, and introduces stresses and issues that never existed in the past.  This makes a woman of a man, and a man of a woman, thus clearly messing with deeper primal urges.

    • Rusty says:

      02:57pm | 29/11/10

      When Betty Friedan told women in the 60’s that they needing to go out into the paid workforce to give their lives meaning (which they did in droves), then why should they be surprised that house prices went up beyond the reach of 1 breadwinner.?  Competing couples set house prices.  When the disposable income chasing those houses is 4-10 times bigger, of course prices will rise by a similar multiple and women today are locked into the system.Don’t blame the guys for high house prices and its flow on effects.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      12:50pm | 29/11/10

      Leaving the feminism side of the argument to the ladies, I will respond to the author’s (correct imo) view that men are actually suppossed to be more manly than we see today.

      It does depress me that we see too many men this day that are far too passive. I don’t care if your handy with tools or not. I do care that you think your powerless.

      Men are supposed to be dangerous—-really really dangerous. They should know they have the power to obliterate just about anything. And they should be gentle to most, using that power not only to protect, but also destroy those who threaten the powerless.

      I’m not even making this argument from some kind of gorilla man biological perspective - I’m thinking more of what it means in terms of spiritual identity to be a man. A man should be powerful and move gently in strength. *not* move gently from a position of weakness.

      Note by the way none of this is me suggesting women should be any more servile (servile women bore me) but just calling on men to remember they aren’t sheep. They aren’t “nice” wusses. They are men.

    • Anna says:

      07:22am | 30/11/10

      What are you talking about that men are moving from positions of weakness? What does that mean? Do you think women are too powerful? Do you think that men need to ‘take back’ some power from women? Would you mind explaining yourself a little bit more?

    • hot tub political machine says:

      02:04pm | 03/12/10

      No I don’t mind and thankyou for asking. Sorry about the delay.

      First – no I’m not advocating taking any power away from women. I think the idea that if a man’s power increases, the women’s decreases (and visa versa) is a flawed concept. This is because it is based on the assumption that Men and Women are in competition with one another. No I don’t deny that some men and women are in competition – nor do I deny some women need to compete with men to get much needed resources. However this is not the only way it should be, or needs to be. Men and Women can actually live *for* each other, rather than in competition. I know that sounds idealistic/unrealistic but I have actually seen some people live this way.

      When I talk about men moving from a position of weakness, I’m talking about the emasculation of men in western society. Over the last couple of decades we have seen men encouraged to be more - docile. Probably because most crimes and committed by men, but its been a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Men have also been encouraged to use their personal power less – we are expected to be good little citizens rather than world breakers. And its just not manly. Ask boys what they want to do when they grow up and they mostly want to do extraordinary things – dangerous things. But school jn particular, but also other forces like marketing, an increasingly litigious society ect – encourages us to fall in line and be good little boys from the cradle to the grave. The adventurous heart of a man had been killed. So has a boy’s (who becomes an man) belief in their own power to change things for the better. Men need to be reminded that if they so choose, they can break the rules – and by doing so do extraordinary things.

    • IF says:

      12:53pm | 29/11/10

      I recently broke off my engagement because my fiance told me hes not going to be happy if I decide to work after we’re married.

      For me, its not so much about working or not working, its more about being able to make the decision myself.

    • JJ says:

      12:54pm | 29/11/10

      You’ve made some great points their Josephine. Men should be men and women should be women! We sure are a simple bunch when we cant even get that right! The fact is when we wonder away from eternal truths we invent all sorts of new and exciting problems for ourselves:) We shouldn’t be jumping in a time machine, but there are some pearls of wisdom that have been lost on today’s generation.
      For any men out there looking to make some sense out of life and their role ,I’d recommend a book called ‘Wild at Heart’ by John Eldridge. He explains that every man has a battle to fight, a beauty to rescue and an adventure to live.

    • Clare says:

      01:00pm | 29/11/10

      What exactly are you wanting to go back to Josephine? Do you want to be paid at least a 1/3 less than your male colleagues? Do you want to not be able to borrow money from a bank and buy property? Do you want to only have access to a backyard abortion? Do you want to have to stay in an abusive relationship because you have no where else to go? Do you want to have no rights if a relationship ends?
      It isn’t as if we had a perfect world and the old model delivered happiness and stability. It delivered abject misery to many. As other have written here, it is a shame that true liberation (where one can be truly one’s self, male or female ) has not rapidly emerged post feminism, but I fear you have no idea what it was really like in the 50’s. It seems you are really arguing for some sort of lost eroticism, furry pink wedge sandals and sheer black lingerie,  as if feminism has robbed you of those things. Men and woman are not equal, they are certainly different, but they are entitled to equal rights. That is what true feminism is about. I think you are completely unaware that the very fact you have the job you have and life you do….earning money, gaining status and respect is largely due to the feminist movement….and not just that ones in the 60’s, but much further back…to the suffragettes and others who fought for equal rights for women.
      I don’t think feminism has really effected Australian society very much. The currency for women is still, by a country mile, their appearance. Those who use feminism as some sort of whipping post for men have entirely missed the point.  Our society is obsessed with image and superficiality, and artificial gender roles do not liberate people. They might make things seem simpler, but they don’t actually make things better.

    • Russ says:

      03:18pm | 29/11/10

      Women have never been interested in equal opportunity.  What they are interested in is equal outcomes disguised as equal opportunity. 
      If some sort of a numerical discrepancy in wages or managerial position “proves” discrimination, then the removal of discrimination necessarily requires the removal of these statistical imbalances. i.e. outcomes.  The notion that employers are in business to have the best applicants (i.e.women) cross the road to work for the opposition is itself farsical.

    • just one question says:

      01:02pm | 29/11/10

      Just one question:
      Who cleans the toilet?
      To me that is the crux of where a relationship is at in terms of gender balance.

      I thought I had some balance in my relationship until I remembered the vow I made to myself after seeing my mum toil and toil, I would never be the sole toilet cleaner.
      Since our marriage 7yrs ago, I began to realise that more and more I was picking up the slack even though my partner and I were both FT employed (and on top of that I was studying).. I asked him if he could start cleaning the ensuite toilet, his response: “No, it’s beneath me.” How did I let it get to that?
      So, to all of you, who cleans the toilet?

    • vincent says:

      01:11pm | 29/11/10

      Have you left him?

    • Kika says:

      01:33pm | 29/11/10

      I clean ours! When I first met my husband I think he’d never cleaned his ever.

    • Eleanor says:

      01:38pm | 29/11/10

      In my house, it’s whoever messes it up. Like hell am I scrubbing my boyfriend’s skidmarks off the bottom of the bowl. I wouldn’t expect him to do that for me either.

    • just one question says:

      01:45pm | 29/11/10

      Vincent, no, I have not left him. What can I say, I still have hope!

      As a woman who has been at the same time primary carer for 2, student, FT employed in higher paying role while at times my dear hubby has been out of the workforce, I agree with one thing: the ideology of “you can do it all” that has been rammed down the past generation of women’s throats is a load of shite.
      At the end of the day relationships that work, regardless of how things are divvied up come down to respect and teamwork.
      If my partner had said in response to my question anything other than the devaluing phrase that he said, well we would probably have had a more harmonious past year.

    • Zac says:

      01:52pm | 29/11/10

      Mostly I do and rarely my feminine sweet heart does as well. We have no time to fight over who cleans the toilet because we make LOVE over it. Sadly this is lost by the feminists.

      “Love covers a multitude of sins” (Bible)

    • St. Michael says:

      02:01pm | 29/11/10

      I do.  About half the time.  My wife does it about half the time as well.  But she still does a hell of a lot more of the housework than me, which is something I regret very deeply and which I have to admit I’m a bit lazy about.  It’s not something to be proud of.

      I try not to resort to the excuse that my job means I’m incapable of doing it; we have two preschool children, so if anyone’s got the harder job, it’s her being at home with “those people”.  I only know that from having done it a few times myself.

      Blokes need to stop hiding the idea that being asked to do a bit of housework is an attack on their male identity.  Masculinity =/= what you do for a crust, it’s who you are.

    • cleaner says:

      04:06pm | 29/11/10

      it is always the person who cares the least that can tolerate it more. I care more for a clean house than my partner, so I do most of the cleaning.

      Funny Q when you read the third post from here (UnashamedMan).

    • GE says:

      08:29am | 30/11/10

      Feminists – Please stop using your non-Gender Equality method of counting the quantity of house work as a measure of contribution to the Family Unit.

      Many feminist claims have the basis of replacing actual (physical) quantification of work/effort with heart tugging stories about the volume. All his housework was done for him, he was waited on hand n foot.

      This is called emotional quantification and is at the heart of the housework measurement that dates from early Feminism.

      This housework female contribution to the Family Unit that took 10-15-20 hours a week somehow got compared to the male contribution of 40+ hours a week.

      The female contribution also had child raising, but that diminished over time. From the age of 3 children started attending kindy then school. They become self sufficient over time, feeding and washing themselves. As the children matured they even contributed to the housework, relieving the mother of some home duties.

      To physically quantify, plot a typical time line from my parents era. Married at 20 years of age. The husband worked 40+ hours a week and did the traditional male jobs around the house. Having 3 children, all are at school within 7 years. After 25 years they are 25, 23 and 21 with some potentially left home.

      The husband still has 20 more years of his 40 + hours per week role, the wife has 20 years of much less contribution than this.

      The wife has plenty of spare time to devote to her interest/hobbies etc. For example, my mother had time in her week to play tennis, visit her friends/relatives in the era before I started kindy, all while my father was at work contributing to the Family Unit in his traditional male role.

      There is the feminist argument that the husband had more opportunities then the wife. That may well be a valid claim dependent on the work the husband did. For the majority of men who had dreary, nowhere jobs it may better be described as an obligation.

      With these physical quantities established, both at the micro (hours per week) and macro (years per life) level, I find comments about men under contributing to the Family Unit based on the amount of housework performed to be not in the spirit of Gender Equality.

      Feminism seems to have rewritten history as having the wife as some overworked slave and the husband as lazy under-contributors in total disregard of the physical quantification .

      Hyper space into the present and women today are leveraging off this feminist LIEand not applying Gender Equality at the appropriate point in the housework debate.

      Gender Equality should apply at the decision making point, rather than at the task allocation point based on some decision that the female has made.

      Should the female who cleans the toilet that she thinks is dirty but the male is fine with claim she is contributing to the Family Unit? After all, the effort she is expending is purely for the benefit of herself.

      I am continually having to call Gender Equality on my partner reminding her that my ability to tolerate a dirty environment is a positive male attribute. An attribute that allows me to think nothing of doing dirty jobs that she would not consider.

      It is not on a toggle switch for her to turn on and off to suit herself.

    • GE says:

      12:53pm | 30/11/10

      As a woman who has been at the same time primary carer for 2, student, FT employed in higher paying role while at times my dear hubby has been out of the workforce ….

      Perfect example of a feminist emotional quantification that does not respect the fundamental principle that work/tasks have a dimension to them called time/duration.

      Rattling of a whole lots of tasks may trigger some emotional response in the right side of your female brain, however my left brain processing is concentrating on crunching the supplied information.

      How can you both be a Primary Care and work full time? I suggest that at most you toggle between these 2 roles and that some third party is tending to the children for the majority of their waking day.

      Full time is a non-specific qualification of the amount of time you spend doing paid employment. Such use of vague label is common in feminism.  There can be several hours per day difference in what full time employment is. Men tend to work more hours per day so why not just tell the number of hours worked?

      And you are a student as well! I take it that you do not do your student stuff at work and if you are claiming that you are doing this stuff while also doing primary caring, I am going to need some convincing.

      And what about the earning more than the hubby! If that is to be a factor then it needs to apply across the board. Not one rule for hubby and one for the wifey.


      Feminists have got to understand that these are your views/opinions. Society is not implementing feminism, we are implementing Gender Equality. Your feminist view is limited to the female representation in the process against which the male view is suppose to be compared.

      Having both views represented forms a control step in the process to weed out misinformation/exaggeration.

      I said suppose to, because unfortunately the whole Gender Equality process is feminist driven and the control step has not occurred.

      What we now see is that offensive feminist drivel, that would have been weeded out during the control process 40 years ago, now being used by current day women as some form of factual information.

      Observationally, it appears that women’s communication is uni-directional and that they have no interest in having their opinion/views put up for constructive criticism.

      Have you every seen a Feminist initiate a debate with a Mens’ Rights Activist?

    • just one question says:

      01:56pm | 30/11/10

      To GE:

      Not sure you will bother to read this as you seem to think you have the trump card.
      1. You asked to quantify hours: when working FT 40+hrs at work and then 1930-0130hrs juggling uni studies and my work as a regional mgr of a health service. My days off work were also similar.
      2. You are correct, I did avail of child care when I was working FT (I am currently on maternity leave and before you go on about mat leave, I have tried to negotiate with my partner that he take leave to be at home parent so that we will both have had equal time raising our kiddies but unsuccessful) and I was in the primary carer role - I will not elaborate as I am not prepared to quarrel over semantics, suffice to say I was/am my children’s main carer. That is not to say my partner has no involvement, his kiddies love him and he absolutely adores them.
      3. You asked how I can manage everything, well last week I operated on less than 3hrs sleep a night. I have averaged less than 4hrs broken sleep each night usually bed by 0300-0330hrs and up at 0630-0730hrs (nursing bub) for the last 4-5mths so I can finish off my studies ready to return to work FT. While on maternity leave I was lucky to have gained employment from home which I do at night.
      4. I am not sure you really got my initial post, you got stuck on content. I am not about quantifying jobs, etc so lay off. I asked my hubby to clean one toilet, that is all, it is the response: “it is beneath me” that is the problematic part. That you didn’t even pick up on that tells me you just don’t get it. Take toilets, jobs away, is that a comment you would want directed at you from a person you love for anything? Respect is all I ask for. I am sad not angry.
      Stop projecting your anger and vitriol on me, start your own post.

    • WEML says:

      01:05pm | 29/11/10

      I’ll be a post-feminist in a post-patriarchy.

    • vincent says:

      01:10pm | 29/11/10

      Seriously Josephine? This must be a joke, right?

      “Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal? “. Its ok to treat our women as second class citizens?

      I’ll be sure to tell my daughters that they don’t deserve an education because thats the right of their brothers only. And really, why are they being so disrespectful and selfish.

    • UnashamedMan says:

      01:13pm | 29/11/10

      Thought provoking, timely and well written article, thankfully written by a woman otherwise the author would be sued, strung up and burnt at the cross for exercising such scandalous individual thought against the entrenched thought police who rail against this ‘sacrilege’.  About time.  I am still amused at how many comments my wife receives for changing her name to mine and for cooking and cleaning while I do the manly chores.  My fathers feminist wife (yes all divorced and re-married, how unusual) once even asked how the housework is divided up in our marriage.  Not, if we are happy together, or what our visions for our future are, but to expect us to explain our relationship to her to be judged fit or not.  Well, she can get stuffed, we just joked that yeah I watch footy all day while my wife serves me, her head span.  Our relationship belongs to us and we justify it to no one, and this in itself is a radical idea.  There is an increasing trend for relationships, once private, to be public and judged in public.  A relationship is hard enough to make work amongst two people, let alone on a stage in front of a judging audience.  I like my wife to be sexy and feminine and she likes me to work out and be manly.  And you know what?  She earns more than me, is successful in her career and bloody good at what she does.  That annoys the feminists even more because the ones we meet are generally all poor and busy trying to claim everyone else’s hard earned wealth to generate any of their own.  I don’t want to be married to a man, I like sexy women, and my wife doesn’t want to be married to a punce, she wants a real man, and we’re happy with that.  It annoys our feminist friends (namely our friends wives who believe we are evil heathens for doing this) but we don’t care.  Another thing, I was seeing a specialist today, who asked if I was ever prone to depression and I said yes, and that weight lifting was the only thing that ever really helped for some reason.  He suggested that it could raise my testosterone levels and that’s why it helps my mental health.  I feel more calm, more balanced and more intelligent with my testosterone raised through weight lifting.  So even testosterone, a much maligned hormone by the feminists, is now being shown to be essential to male mental as well as physical health, improving cognitive ability and general all round functioning.  So I say to other men, reclaim your testosterone, and improve your brain, your health and your relationships!

    • bec says:

      01:26pm | 29/11/10

      Who are these feminists who have a rabid platform against testosterone?

      My personal agenda is adamantly anti-insulin. That’s what’s ruining our country and giving jerbs to our immigants!

    • Krista says:

      02:17pm | 29/11/10

      And funding terrrrism!

    • bec says:

      02:27pm | 29/11/10

      And making our single mums and shonky tradies fat, and our overweight kids unable to find a well-fitting bra!

      This sounds like a job for Naomi Robson to investigate!

    • UnashamedMan says:

      02:33pm | 29/11/10

      Bec, pretty much all our so called ‘educated’ friends wives, that to be honest, never really seemed to have high powered careers and perhaps they blame the ‘patriarchy’ for this.  Seems like a cop out to me.  My wife brings home some serious bacon and she still makes me pie, and I like to ravish her and work out.  Stuff the feminist ‘ideals’, I honestly don’t think our marriage would work if we subscribed to any of those over blown beliefs.  To be honest, I am grateful to an extent because my wife would not be working and earning such serious cash were it not for feminism, but on the other hand, I am angry that now she will not have a choice.  My professional well educated ‘high’ wage will *just* cover a mortgage, and my wife will need to return to work within 3 months of having children if we are to survive.  Double income families are no longer a liberating choice, they have become a enslaving necessity that will deny my wife of indulging in her maternal instincts should she so choose.  So we are grateful for feminism on the one hand for giving choice to my wife to reach her potential, and angry on the other hand for enslaving us to a double income society that has actually now deprived us of much choice.  That being said, there are male pig husbands as well as butch bossy wives, it takes two to tango.  But I really think the world should just butt out.  I take solace in the fact that the members of the opinionated chattering class who ask us to explain our relationship are generally middle to lower middle income and struggling financially (no coincidence there) and that we are both high income earners because we pursued education in areas of actual market relevance rather than social statement.  And on the other hand I am grateful that my wife lives in a socially liberated world where she has choice.  It’s just a shame that feminism has, possibly inadvertently or deliberately as a vehicle of economic growth, has now enslaved us and is distancing us from our true selves.

      But we own our relationship and we make apologies to no one for how we structure it.  I answer to her, she answers to me.  And it ends there.

    • St. Michael says:

      02:57pm | 29/11/10

      @ UnashamedMan: good on you!

      Only queries I’d have now are: what’s your relationship with your father like, and how close are your relationships get with your male friends?

    • bec says:

      03:08pm | 29/11/10

      UnashamedMan, I don’t care two hoots what you earn, or what your wife does, or whatever. This could turn into a pissing contest. I earn good money and so does my fiance, I really don’t care too much because money isn’t what drives us.

      You know what? The world would be a great place if families could survive on one income, and that income could be based on two parents working part-time, or even parents negotiating who earns the most and would benefit the family most by working outside the home. But I don’t see how working outside the home makes you a man, or why it has to be men that do it.

      I think people who get pride from how masculine or feminine they are are douchebags. It means they haven’t got any decent personal attributes - like achievements, or talents, or even nice personality traits - to sell themselves on. Men who are proud of how manly they are, and women who are proud of how feminine they are, or even the opposite and people who are proud of how androgynous they are, are total washouts with no soul and nothing to recommend them.

      You can be as manly or as ladylike as you want and I just wouldn’t care. But have a little more than that to base your identity and attraction on, otherwise you just sound like a tool.

    • Christopher says:

      01:24pm | 29/11/10

      When I was at Uni I took a subject in Women’s Studies, partly for a laugh, and partly because I sensed that in some ways the pendulum of feminism had swung too far and begun to negatively impact on men and result in the loss of masculinity. I saw that there are many women’s services available, for health, mental health, emergency housing etc, that do not have a comparable equivalent for men, in spite of need.

      I went into the course somewhat frustrated and angry, but I found was that there is not one ‘feminism’ - there are many flavours, each with different focal points and purposes. Many have successfully pursued important changes and dealt with many injustices against women in the developed world. Many of these injustices continue around the world, some of them still continue here; after all, many man ARE still selfish, sexist a**holes. (And so are many women).

      I also found that the feminist discussion seemed to completely lack a male voice. There was no-one to point out the positive aspects of masculinity, how to encourage them and how defend them against the erosion. And few seemed to consider that being a mother and keeping house should is itself a valid career choice; I know of mothers who have been sneered at by other women because they just want to be an excellent wife and mother, and not have any other ‘career’.

      This discussion will go nowhere as long as it is driven by anger. Men and women both need to listen, and to have a chance to speak.

      I believe men and women, in general, are wired differently; they should not be limited based on their gender, but it makes sense to encourage those skills which people are naturally suited to.

      Proverbs 31 (in the Bible) provides a beautiful picture of a woman who balances a career and motherhood. But the modern expectation on women of motherhood + full time career + keeping house is unfair and unrealistic. Something needs to change.

    • Rusty says:

      03:06pm | 29/11/10

      Womens Studies classes are nothing more than an easy credit.  A hate session against men.  In fact, its probably incorrect to say that feminists hate men, since generally, feminists hate each other, probably because they were not born men.  Hey, I can understand that.!!

    • Anne says:

      01:35pm | 29/11/10

      please enrol in a gender studies class or a university course of any kind and for goodness sake learn something from someone other than your friend dave you fool.

    • Zac says:

      04:49pm | 29/11/10

      Approved by leftists/feminists. No wonder western world is so messed up!!!!

    • iansand says:

      01:47pm | 29/11/10

      In the 60s, in the Commonwealth public service, a woman was required to resign when she married.

      Any anti-feminist rants should be judged against that simple fact.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      01:53pm | 29/11/10

      Um wow. How patronising. I treat women how I treat everyone else, and I don’t feel at all like I have no purpose. I’m actually feeling a little insulted at the implication I need to dominate/be more powerful than women to have any sense of worth.

    • Rusty says:

      05:21pm | 29/11/10

      Oh yeah Chase.?  When you suggest going down the Pub with your mates, do you pay for their drinks coz u made the suggestion.?  Same with a meal? Do u buy your mates a meal coz you made the suggestion?  When women ask their girlfriends out for lunch, they go Dutch.  So what exactly are women offering men that they put a monetary value on, when they go out on a date.?

    • Tril says:

      02:11pm | 29/11/10

      Where is the “dislike” button? Not only do I disagree with this article, I believe it to be potentially dangerous, not just to women who do not want to fit into an outdated stereotype, but to men who don’t fit the masculine construct either. Talking about women and feminism as though they are simple one-sided constructs is short sighted and when people use the term “femininity’ in this context I almost vomit on myself a little. Sigh.

    • Zac says:

      04:38pm | 29/11/10

      I believe it to be potentially dangerous, not just to women who do not want to fit into an outdated stereotype, but to men who don’t fit the masculine construct either.>>

      Why is it dangerous? Would care to substantiate?

    • Steely Dan says:

      02:11pm | 29/11/10

      “The current trend is for dads to be more hands on. But for all we know it may be proven in a hundred years time that that may be a negative thing for the upbringing of children”
      Or put another way: ‘for all we know it may be proven in a hundred years time that that may be a positive thing for the upbringing of children’.  BTW, Teo’s a neurosurgeon - he’s as much as an expert on child-rearing as an economist is.

      “A man has to have a good job; he has to do well at school so he can get a good job and support his family. A woman has to be loving and caring.”
      My mother had a good job, did well at school, supported the family and was loving and caring.  My father was all of those things too.  Should I have wished that my mother was unemployable and that my father was an emotionally detached solo bread-winner?

      “Feminism has achieved victories for women, but could it be at the expense of femininity, chivalry and attributes of the opposite sex that instinctively attract us to each other?”
      You think men are becoming less attractive? 

      “If you want real passion, you need a ravisher and a ravishee. Otherwise you just have two buddies who decide to rub genitals in bed,”
      I’m glad that you’ve cited one person’s preference as a source.  If this guy was a leather fetishist I assume he’d say we all need to suit up in the boudoir to be happy.

      “The decline of practical skills, some of them very day-to-day, among a generation of British men is very worrying. They can’t put up a shelf, wire a plug, countersink a screw…”
      Yet the economy chugs along.  And ask a tradie whether they want more DIYers out there.  Yep, those rugged, manly tradies make a living from me getting them to do stuff that an apparently unattractive white-collar guy isn’t qualified to do.

      “Evolution provided each with the physical and emotional assets to do these jobs well.”
      Naturalistic fallacy.  Is this fallacy in vogue at the moment?

      “And women didn’t feel pressure to justify their existence with a career. They were proud home makers and mothers.”
      Oh no!  You have choices!  It must annoy you that women can vote now.  Who’d want the responsibility of deciding who represents us?

      “Now, two thirds of Australian families with dependent children have two incomes.”
      The poor economy.

      “...avoid the negative stigma of being a housewife.”
      Do you know any housewives?  All the housewives I know (with the exception of those who are just between jobs) brag about it.  If there is a stigma attached to being a housewife, the housewives I know are too busy playing golf to worry about it.

      “Is it becoming unacceptable in our society for women to rely on men and take pride in abilities defined as gender roles?”
      No.  Feminism gave you choice to have a career if you want it, not mandate that you fit into somebody else’s stereotype.

      “The survey also found more than half of respondents thought 21st century society was turning men into “waxed and coiffed metrosexuals”, who had to live according to women’s rules.”
      To women’s rules… hang on, you mean to say that most women like what you dislike?  So this isn’t about feminism going to far - this is just you having a whinge that you can’t find a guy?

      “How does that impact a man’s morale?”
      When they’re waxing, coiffing and getting more female attention as a result?  One word: positively!

      “My friend Dave told me his wife speaks to him in the same tone as she speaks to their children – and the dog.”
      Your friend Dave should get a divorce.  His wife is a tool.  How is this feminism’s fault?

      “Could this be part of the reason why one in eight Australian men experiences severe depression in their lifetime?”
      It could.  So could more saturated fats.  Or plasma TVs.  Or the current state of Australian rugby union.  Or the lack of good secret fishing spots.  Draw a long bow, expect a stupid answer.

      “... stress, work pressures and lack of time to spend with their partner were the top three factors that negatively impacted upon partner relationships.”
      If my partner stopped working, and I worked longer hours to keep us afloat - this would positively impact our relationship?

      “Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal?”
      In what way are we not equal?  Not in any way that should affect the areas in life that feminists have fought for equality.

    • Wright says:

      02:16pm | 29/11/10

      “But is it making couples happier?”

      The purpose of the architects of the new society is not to make us happy but to make us a controllable crowd that would serve them. Destroying family is just one of the steps. This is why the values have been so persistently changed for decades.

    • Anon one says:

      02:48pm | 29/11/10

      Its in the corporates interest to have lots of single people and broken homes and women poor - that way, its easier to target their market.

      Cant have women with money - they can not be marketed to.

    • Ben says:

      03:02pm | 29/11/10

      Men and women are equal but have different roles. That’s how it should be, it’s logical and makes perfect sense. Unfortunately many of us are way to self centered to accept that, and serve one another in our roles as men and women.

    • ibast says:

      03:03pm | 29/11/10

      My partner and I share our roles fairly equally.  Sure there are some manly things I tend to do and some girly stuff she does.  Never-the-less, she works and I cook (for example).

      Despite this I think it has become detrimental to our society that the expectation is that women will work.  It has resulted in a disproportionate increase in housing prices and the result is our children are getting less personal time with their mothers.  It has also added an extra level of stress to men.  Not only are we now expected to still be the primary long term bread winners, we are expected to help out around the house much more and be a much more interactive father.

      So whilst I certainly don’t believe that women should be subservient to men and I believe women should be able to work when they want, I also believe that perhaps there is merit in not encouraging women to take on a career when they are disinclined to do so.

    • Aaron says:

      07:49am | 30/11/10

      This is the fault of capitalism not feminism. Women needed the option of entering the workforce because they had absolutely no way to support themselves in the old structure. But now few people have the option of one partner staying at home full time because they can’t afford it.

    • Sarah says:

      03:07pm | 29/11/10

      I work and study in a “male dominant” field because it’s what I’m passionate about, not because I’m trying to fill the role of a man.  I’m so happy that I’ve been able to have that choice without the social stigma that comes with being able to choose what I do (ie not being forced through social expectations to stay at home/be a teacher/nurse etc).  Now you’re saying I should be a submissive housewife and raise children, completely dependent on a husband who works all the time just so that he can be more masculine?!?!  If you want to live that way, you have that choice, other women will not judge you because they also have that choice.  Please stop writing rediculous articls in an attempt to reverse the freedom we have.

      I’m also very feminine by the way.  I’m nothing like a male.  I’m just allowed their choices now.  The intelligence and worldly experiences that I have been able to gain through having those choices are the reason my partner is attracted to me and the reason my father, brothers and male friends see me as an equal (not an identical).

    • Jess says:

      02:55pm | 30/11/10

      Sarah this is great!!  It’s about choice!  In some countries women aren’t even given these types of choices (educational etc…) In saying that women don’t have these opportunities, opportunities for men are also limited.  For exampIe a father living in a third world country could stay home and spend time with his children, however who would bring in the money to support them?  I feel so lucky living in Aus.  We can have the best of both worlds!  My boyfriend posted this article on face book, here is how I replied:

      Perhaps then Peter we are not infact compatible but rather 2 buddies that rub eachothers genitals in bed. I think I can live with that, at least if you ever become the father of my children they will have 2 ‘loving and caring’ parents rath…er than one. There is a good point to this article in that perhaps we should be emphaising certain qualities in women and men so that they can work and energise together as one. However is it to inconveinient to ask that a man is ‘more hands on’ with his children. Women have also made sacrifices that contradict their ‘traditional’ responsibilities on earth. Everyday life has become expensive particuarly for families with children, there is now a growing need for mothers to also be working and so they do. Perhaps there are some women who seek to destroy the masculinity of men in order to make themselves equal, but don’t flatter yourselves guys it’s not all about you. For me persoanally and I’m sure for many others, supporting my family and fulfilling my passions will the drvinig forces behind my career and I don’t care if I have to become ‘less feminine’ to do so.

    • Unimpressed feminist says:

      03:24pm | 29/11/10

      Interesting that this article appears during the global Sixteen Days of Activism Against Violence Against Women.

      To go by your stereotypes & “idyllic past” roles; so we should re-instate times when we believed man was dragging his woman around by her hair, bashing her if she “stepped out of line”, she had no financial choice to leave a relationship if she was in an abusive marriage, or was raped by her husband if he wanted sex & she didn’t… ?

      Don’t worry, there are plenty of those men still around. As there are plenty of men who know their way around a toolbox. Or women with aspirations beyond the kitchen and power dressing. Or couples who don’t take on traditional roles & yet don’t resemble your one “couple” example (has the man tried to actually discuss this with his wife rather than discuss this with you?!).

      But as I first said, interesting that this comes during a global campaign to address Violence Against Women and how certain gender roles (that are not “biological” if you look around at the entire history of the world & its multitude of cultures & times) re-inforce society’s acceptance of VAW.

    • AdamC says:

      04:53pm | 29/11/10

      Yikes, this is a terrible comment.

      So, Unimpressed Feminist, are you really suggesting that the author here is advocating violence against women? Because, if you aren’t, why did you adorn your nasty paragraphs with numerous references to it?

      I totally agree that we shouldn’t idealise a history of defined gender roles, but essentially equating traditional marriage and family life with excusing sexual violence is desperate in its absurdity. I also think you could benefit from understanding the concept of nuance. Like, for example, I don’t think Josephine would actually support a situation in which women were limited to the kitchen.

      (PS, if this is actually a deadpan satire, you got me.)

    • Shama says:

      05:14pm | 29/11/10

      AdamC, quoting someone approvingly as saying “If you want real passion, you need a ravisher and a ravishee” does sound uncomfortably close to suggesting rape aka violence against women.

      That or the bloke has been reading too many Barbara Cartland novels. Actually Ms Asher may well be advocating life in a Cartland novel and I wonder how many men would like to be the manly ravishers of that pink paradise!

    • R says:

      07:17pm | 29/11/10

      Great comment. We need to wake up to the beliefs and values that our society reproduces in opinons such as these that underpin and inform violence against women, which is an abuse of male power.

    • Wright says:

      03:25pm | 29/11/10

      Fortunately my wife is infinitely better than all feminists of the world combined.
      And she is infinitely smarter than all of them in spite their career.

    • Jo Hayes says:

      03:31pm | 29/11/10

      Amen sister! I cannot agree more with everything Josephine argued in this piece.
      As a mid-20’s professional woman, I find less than abundant numbers of truly manly men to choose from as a future husband. Where have all the good men gone? I want a man who can love me, protect me and fix a leaky tap ... not someone who can help me put together an outfit for the races.
      Bring back the chivalrous man of my fathers generation - who knows what it means to provide and protect -  so that us ladies can have more freedom to truly embrace our feminity.
      Men and women are equal but different ... get used to it.

    • Manny says:

      03:38pm | 29/11/10

      Why don’t feminists make a real contribution to science by inventing a computer mouse shaped like a clothes iron.??  Something that feels naturally comfortable in their hand, as they spew out their venom against men.  Her choice : work or home.  His choice : work or work.  That is the feminist idea of gender equality.

    • Dan says:

      03:51pm | 29/11/10

      Great article with lots of truth. Too late now to look back and say “hey, I think we just made a big mistake”. Men are silenced weaklings and Women are loud mouth bitches, isn’t it great the way we turned out. PC is the best.

    • Every HUMAN should be a feminist says:

      04:04pm | 29/11/10

      I honestly don’t know how any female could classify themselves as ‘anti-feminist’; that’s akin to saying you’re not worthwhile as a human being and you don’t deserve to have the right to pursue equality in politics, economics or society as a whole because you don’t have a penis.  I might point out that equality does not mean THE SAME. I have never heard any feminist presume that women and men are the same because they are fundamentally different. That does not mean however, that we cannot strive to have equal rights.

      That aside, what really pissed me off about this article though was the author saying men doing ironing and cooking etc was un-masculine. Seriously! They are basic skills that any adult should have. I mean, do you really think that before feminism came around single men just lived in slovenly holes and remained unkept until they married a woman to civilise them?! Is any man who has commented on this article incapable of doing basic household chores? I do not think so.

      And, I think the author should also be very aware of the fact that if ‘these horrible hairylegged feminists’ had not fought for women’s rights she would not even be able to write this article, let alone earn any money from it, because she would not have been educated and would probably be slaving away at her father’s home being the old, ugly, barren spinster that she traditionally would have been at 29.

    • Shama says:

      04:46pm | 29/11/10

      Spot on.

      Please spare us the anti-feminists making a buck out of the “masculine” profession of writing and who evidently have not married the first man papa chose. 

      Might also be time to shut down the bank account Josephine or leave it in Papa’s care.

    • Josephine says:

      04:13pm | 30/11/10

      Thanks for your comment. Just to clarify: I was not paid to write this article, nor did I write it as part of my job. It is an opinion piece.

    • MJ Budd says:

      07:10pm | 01/12/10

      –noun, plural -ties.
      1.
      the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.
      2.
      uniform character, as of motion or surface.
      3.
      Mathematics . a statement that two quantities are equal; equation…—Synonyms
      1.  equivalency, parity, correspondence, sameness; justice, fairness, impartiality.

      Sameness…equality synonymous sameness….
      spoken like a true lesbian

    • Graham The Great says:

      04:12pm | 29/11/10

      What’s a comment by Charlie Teo got to do with this, he operates on the brain, he has no idea what it ‘thinks’.  I know people who think Charlie Teo is like a god, I think he’s a bit of a egotistical wanker, yeah I’ve met him.

    • jade says:

      04:25pm | 29/11/10

      I think it is personal choice. I prefer my men manly, I don’t want someone who takes longer than me to get ready. I want a protector, someone strong and someone who can fix this or that when it is broken.

      My partner and I both work full time, he has a very well paying job and does long days. I work, clean, cook, wash, and organise everything. This is what works for us and how we both like to keep it, although sometimes a little help doesn’t go astray. I would love to stay home and keep the house tidy and all that but unfortunately I am a bit addicted to shopping and need work to support my habit raspberry

    • Luce says:

      04:27pm | 29/11/10

      If woman are returning to the workforce for independence and to further their career, surely thats a sign that they wouldn’t be more happy at home being a housewife?

      This article seems to place the presence of perceived femininity and masculinity in society as more important than people’s choice to direct their lives as they see fit. I’ve met men who admit they would prefer to stay home and look after the kids, and women who admit they would rather be working and earning then being a housewife. Clearly not everyone fits into the stereotypes put forward by Ms Asher, and I would have thought upholding such stereotypes would not be the right way forward. Each couple should be able to exist in the way which works best for them and their family, and not according to how society,  or certain people in society, thinks it should be.

      p.s. I don’t want to be a housewife, not because of any stigma, and especially not because I’d be scared of threatening my husbands masculinity, but because I have ambition, and if I was stuck at home all day I would go stark raving mad (and very possibly depressed). I want to achieve something in my life, as do many other women.

    • rose says:

      06:27pm | 29/11/10

      ...completely agree.  Who is it for any of us to say how whole genders should live their lives?  Equality is about choice.  Should our choices be taken away from us simply because a small group of people feel strongly one way? We should all just be minding our own business, in my view.  Who’s business is it of anyone’s if I enjoy working? Who’s business is it of mine if the author prefers not to? I can’t stand people who try to enforce their views on other people as if they think they are somehow divine and their own point of view is the correct one…

    • Incredulous says:

      04:44pm | 29/11/10

      Congratulations - in this article, you’ve effectively pigeonholed the entirety of feminist thought into a narrowly blinkered worldview. Can’t help but wonder if you regretted this after reading just one of the numerous responses above that have contained just a measure of sense. As an 18 year-old girl, the obtuseness and ignorance that informs your haphazard article is not only the result of poor research, but, importantly, is offensive to the cause of feminism. Feminism is still relevant, and you would do well to comprehend that a feminist comes in many guises, not just in the stereotype of a woman who aspires, in her quest for equality, to become ‘like a man’ - destroying in the process the God-given equilibrium of sexual balance with her ‘ravaging’, power-tool-wielding man. As noted above, relationships of all sorts of unique sexual and emotional dynamics seem to be working.

    • Mayday says:

      05:46pm | 29/11/10

      As a 55 year old feminist and a single mother of two adult sons who works two jobs to keep a roof over her head I’d like to say reading your comment put the wind back in my sail! 

      Thank you Incredulous.

      Ms Asher I was flattened by the whole article, you have no idea!?

    • will says:

      08:55am | 30/11/10

      Incredulous, I must compliment you on one of the best pieces of educated writing I have ever read from a ‘young’ person.  It’s a joy to see someone able to eloquently express themselves.

    • S.L says:

      05:07pm | 29/11/10

      How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?
      Answer 5
      1 to cry
      3 to create a warm and caring environment
      and finally 1 to phone her ex husband for instructions…......

    • Luce says:

      09:36pm | 29/11/10

      S.L that’s actually a really lame joke, and not the funny type of lame.

    • Zac says:

      05:08pm | 29/11/10

      This is for every feminist and liberal men out there. It will certainly open your eyes…....

      Like for most feminists, it was a no-brainer for me to become a Democrat. Liberal men, not conservatives, were the ones devoted to women’s issues. They marched at my side in support of abortion rights. They were enthusiastic about women succeeding in the workplace.

      As time went on, I had many experiences that should have made me rethink my certainty. But I remained nestled in cognitive dissonance—therapy jargon for not wanting to see what I didn’t want to see.

      One clue: the miscreants who were brutalizing me didn’t exactly look Reagan-esque. In middle and high schools, they were minority kids enraged about forced busing. On the streets of New York City and Berkeley, they were derelicts and hoodlums. 

      Another red flag: while liberal men did indeed hold up those picket signs, they didn’t do anything else to protect me. In fact, their social programs enabled bad behavior and bred chaos in urban America. And when I was accosted by thugs, those leftist men were missing in action.

      What else should have tipped me off? Perhaps the fact that so many men in ultra-left Berkeley are sleazebags. Rarely a week goes by that I don’t hear stories from my young female clients about middle-aged men preying on them. With the rationale of moral relativism, these creeps feel they can do anything they please.

      What finally woke me up were the utterances of “bitch,” “witch,” and “monster” toward Hillary Clinton and her supporters early last year. I was shocked into reality: the trash-talk wasn’t coming from conservatives, but from male and female liberals. 

      I finally beheld what my eyes had refused to see: that leftists are Mr. and Ms. Misogyny. Neither the males nor the females care a whit about women.

      The Wilding of Sarah Palin

      http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/the_wilding_of_sarah_palin.html

    • Richard says:

      09:41pm | 29/11/10

      Nice article.

      Some highlights:
      “The Left’s behavior towards Palin is not politics as usual. By their laser-focus on her body and her sexuality, leftists are defiling her.”

      “The Left has declared war on Palin because she threatens their existence. Liberals need women dependent and scared so that women will vote Democrat.”

      “And so the Left must try to destroy her. And they are doing this in the most malicious of ways: by symbolically raping her. Just like a perpetuator, they dehumanize her by objectifying her body. They undress her with their eyes.They turn her into a piece of ass.”

      “Liberals do this by calling her a c__t,  ogling her legs, demeaning her with names like “slutty flight attendant” and “Trailer Park Barbie,” and exposing her flesh on the cover of Newsweek.”

      “Nothing is off-limits, not actress Sandra Bernhard’s wish that Palin be gang-raped or the sexualization of Palin’s daughters.”

      “The wilding of any woman is reprehensible. But defiling a mother of five with a babe in her arms, and a grandmother to boot, is particularly obscene. It is, of course, Palin’s unapologetic motherhood that fuels the leftist fire.”

      “Because as a mother and a fertile woman, Palin is as close to the sacred as a person gets. She is not just politically pro-life. Her whole being emanates life, which is a stark contrast to the darkness of the Left, the life-despoilers.”

      “These “progressives” are so alienated from the sacred that they perceive nothing as sacred. And they will destroy anyone whose goodness shines a mirror on their pathology. The spiritually barren must annihilate the vital and the fertile.”

      Powerful stuff

    • alice says:

      05:27pm | 29/11/10

      This article makes me furious - for all the feminist rhetoric out there, this is the first article I’ve seen on the punch written by a women who is against feminism, the same view I share. But it’s absolute nonsense what has been written.

      I’m young, finishing off a double degree in law, live alone, have my whole life just beginning. In fact, a lot of people (I know a lot of traditionalists) mistake me for a feminist, but I’m not.  This article has taken the idea of equality and attacked it. Somehow, it has said that being equal is the same as, well, being the same as one another. It has said that equality is mutually exclusive from any aspect of traditional gender roles.

      I strongly disagree with this idea. I think they can go together very well. I believe all women have a right to the same pay for the same job, the choice to have children, the choice to stay at home or work etc.  But I’d also expect that my partner protect me, I’d also rely on him for things, and I’d also want his input in decsions I’m making - because we’re a team, and because I respect him. Equality to me means respecting and valuing the other person, which can take place in what looks like traditionailst ways. It’s also worth noting that no human being is perfect, so in any relationship there’s always going to be things that one is better at than the other - regardless of gender.

      I think the author has confused equality, which is a noble pursuit, with staunch feminism, purported by germaine greer et al.  It’s sad but true that feminism is not always about equality, but is often about female independence. This is ridiculous - on a very basic level, two eggs does not a baby make. I read a book recently about a girl whose mother hated her, and abandoned her at 14, because the daughter was a reminder of the ‘shackles’ men put on women. This is terribly sad, and terribly stupid. It wasn’t men who decided that women would carry the pregnancy, it was nature. The physical differences in men and women cannot be ignored, men are likely to be better at protecting, manual labour, etc, women carry the children for nine months, so are likely to have a stronger bond, initially. But this doesn’t impinge on equality. Equality is a state of mind, an idea, not a set of items on a list that all need to be checked off until there is no discernable difference between the two.

      Feminism also makes the mistake of condeming those women that choose to be married, stay at home with their children etc. My young married, pregnant friend gets completely disrespected by many women (not so many men) for her choice to pursue motherhood over another career.  She is accused of subverting women, and making things more difficult for them, by adhering to traditional values. But shouldn’t feminism be about allowing all women to have a choice, regardless of what the outcome of that choice is? Before tackling intergender equality, shouldn’t feminists work on equality and acceptance within their own gender?

      It might also help if some men could work out what they want. I have a friend whose partner always talks about friends/colleagues etc who are thirty, have really successful careers, and have decided not to have kids etc, and how much he respects them. But then he talks about marriage, and having a stay at home wife with the children. So here’s my poor friend, with two options. Either her partner respects her, but doesn’t want to marry her, or he wants to marry her, but doesn’t respect her. some choice.

    • Russell says:

      10:17pm | 29/11/10

      Strange that.  When I’m at a party and the conversation moves to my plans for the future as a single man, and I tell a prospective partner that I want to give up work after marriage to become a house husband, they don’t come back for a second drink.  Strange that.!!!!

    • M says:

      08:42pm | 03/12/10

      Obviously we haven’t met then. I’m happy to bring the bacon home while the man becomes the ‘man of the house (In the regard he is in the house and knows where everything is, because he put it away. The clean house for me to relax in, after a hard day) I wouldn’tmind a hot meal on the table, steam rising from it’s plate when I am down ready to eat. I’d love the peace of mind of knowing that the kids are looked after while I’m busy paying the bills, bringing home the bacon.

      Conversely I would also make sure I made a good enough living as well.

    • Fi says:

      06:01pm | 29/11/10

      I’m sorry, I had to stop a couple of paragraphs in.
      HOW ON EARTH do you consider a neurosurgeon an appropriate resource on gender roles? I’d be consulting a sociologist. You know, someone who’d've actually researched them.

    • Melissa says:

      07:09pm | 29/11/10

      Spot on. And as someone else pointed out, Charlie Teo’s views in general are not exactly celebrated by his colleagues. I wonder if his children will see things the way he does when they are grown - will they appreciate having a father who spent 14 hours a day at work or parading for the TV cameras? I think the greatest gift a father can give his kids, once basic financial stability is achieved, is his presence.

      In short, to recognise our differences is not a reason to promote economic or political inequality. Some countries use our biological and psychological differences as an excuse to enshrine inequality into law. This article would support that practice, in theory.

    • Marcel says:

      09:30pm | 29/11/10

      As a neurosurgeon, I feel that I have a little licence to respond to this. During my extensive training to reach this ’ socially qualified position’ ( 18 years) I have seen many men and women undergo the rigorous process required to complete this line of work. It is obviously a tough and extremely demanding process. It clearly required much sacrifice particularly from one’s family who gave up a lot to accomodate the working conditions necessary to succeed in this job. I have seen many women (& men) fail this process - but one thing was absolutely clear. The ones that succeeded (and did so brilliantly)  were able to integrate their gender and roles as family members together with their profession. Those that failed deluded themselves that they had to “become men” in order to gain respect, often from their colleagues. It is apparent that men and women have intrinsically different qualities and attributes that make fit naturally as partners. If we fail to recognize our intrinsic equality but differences, we deceive ourselves and our natural biological identity.

    • Deb says:

      06:20pm | 29/11/10

      Its all about choice. If some women want to have careers, that’s there choice, if some want to be home with their children and looking after their home and husbands, thats cool to. Ditto for men - any man who wants to be able to be home looking after his kids and wife, what’s wrong with that? I have friends who are feminist career women, and friends who are stay at home mums, and so long as they have some sense of choice, and personal happiness and fulfillment, good on them.

    • Amanda says:

      08:32pm | 29/11/10

      “Well into the last century the husband provided his family with a home and food and this sole responsibility gave him a sense of power and purpose. And women didn’t feel pressure to justify their existence with a career. They were proud home makers and mothers.” Tell that to Mary Wollstonecraft. This article just reflects the authors failure to grasp basic history, anthropology and science.

      So Dave is spoken to like a child - perhaps it is because he is acting like one and requires his wife to remind him of the chores rather than taking responsibility for his part of the work.

      This article lacks any intellectual rigour and is only good to make the majority of the population - men and women - outraged at its ridiculousness.

    • Apes says:

      10:11pm | 29/11/10

      I was laughing so hard at this article that I just couldn’t take it seriously. I mean, seriously, supposedly in an egalitarian place like Australia and we have people holding such backward attitudes, still blaming feminism and women for wanting to exercise their rights to have choices, it’s frightening. For the record, I think we can safely say women and men are not the same. Nor are we equal. We just seek to have the same opportunities that men have and not be hindered because of our sex. But yes, point taken, it is frightening (for men) that women no longer depend on them.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW says:

      04:36pm | 12/12/10

      But yes, point taken, it is frightening (for men) that women no longer depend on them.

      Then stop asking us men to commit!

      Q) How do you win an argument with a women.

      A) Stay quiet and wait for her to contradict herself, in action and/or words.

    • Adolon says:

      10:38pm | 29/11/10

      Directed to the author, and various people mentioned therein:

      Josephine: “Instead of harnessing the different qualities of men and women to energise us, we are striving to make men and women equal.”

      Congratulations on providing the straw man (equality of gender, instead of equality of opportunity for each gender), while simultaneously working in an animal/slave description of ideal gender relations (harnessing? Seriously?)

      See, what the article *really* has a problem with, but fails to recognise, is that some guys, having discovered they’re not forced to shoulder responsibilities, learn or take leadership, haven’t. That’s not a gender issue; that’s laziness. Same goes for the women who want to cozy back into the demure abrogation of responsibility stereotype; maybe they can avoid responsibility altogether, if we return to the ‘women as chattel’ model of the Ancient Greeks.

      Dave: “Oh poor me, my wife talks to me like a child.” Maybe its because you’re acting like one? Stop complaining and do something about it; shouldering some responsibility by doing the dishes before you have to be asked, and while I’m at it, maybe I’m going out on a limb here, but I’ll bet $10 bucks she has to ask more than once before you move your arse to help.

      *sigh* I would be sympathetic, and all “Its your home too; I’m sure all she wants is a signal from you that you believe it as much as she does”, but it comes out in an article like this, and I have no sympathy at all. Feel like you’ve lost your balls? Maybe its because you haven’t grown a pair to begin with. Build a bridge, and get over it.

      Back to Josephine: “I don’t think that women should surrender their careers all together. But if we allow men to reclaim some power, we women could do more to embrace our femininity.”

      Allow? Feminism never ‘took away’ any power in the first place, except to provide opportunity to share. This ‘loss’ of power, I’ve discovered, is completely imaginary, and more often than not an excuse used by guys to avoid explaining why they don’t take on responsibilities, including those to think, learn and grow.

      As a 24-year old who moved with my girlfriend interstate so we can both study what we want to study, I’ve had to learn alot in the past 10 months about housekeeping, and while it doesn’t fit my definition of ‘fun’, it needs to be done, to be fair to the both of us. What, it’d be more fun for a woman to do than a man? Hardly think so.

    • Saph says:

      06:09am | 30/11/10

      Feminism is a simple philosophy. It’s based on the quaint notion that men and women are human beings with equal human rights, regardless of biological differences. It’s unwise and self defeating to surrender basic human rights, freedoms and dignities simply to make men feel better about themselves. And please don’t forget that the many rights and freedoms that you now enjoy thanks to feminism were denied women for centuries and are still denied to a large percentage of this world’s women and girls. We are talking atrocities against an entire class of people precisely because they are female. Thank goodness for feminism I say.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      08:46am | 30/11/10

      While there are biological differences in men and women a lot of our attitudes and behaviour can be sheeted back to the manner in which we are raised and what, if any, lessons we absorb from the wider society in which we live. How we educate our children has a lot to do with their comfort with the new world; if we present feminism and equality as confusing and confronting ideas then our children will see them as such. Feminism is still a relatively new social movement and is making progress incrementally, so there will continue to be a generation or two who recall times during their life when things were different. Sometimes when I speak with my mother I feel she grew up on another planet, my grandmother was from another galaxy.

      One aspect of this issue that was not addressed by the article is modern men who expect equal women; they desire equal partners, they want someone with which to share their lives and responsibilities. Modern men also, albeit a lot more slowly, are coming to realise that the domestic chores do not do themselves and if both partners have come home from a day’s work then they are both going to be equally tired. Nothing like teamwork and mutual support to take care of the necessary chores. Some women complain not enough men do their share of the domestic chores, now it seems one or two complain they do too much; I suspect there is a worthwhile balance somewhere between these two opinions.

      That chivalry is mentioned is interesting; a feminist I know still actively expresses her desire to have men open doors for her. This is not due to any incapacity on her part, it just makes her feel valued as a woman. For my part, does it kill me to treat her the way she would like? Not at all, I’m quite good with doors unless they are locked, chairs took a little practice with a woman who didn’t laugh at me too much but I’ve mastered that too. As my (male) maths teacher said, “You don’t open doors because they are a lady, you open doors because you are a gentleman.” Likewise if a woman is struggling with a heavy burden, it costs me nothing to offer to assist and still nothing, other than a few kilojoules I can probably spare, to actually lend a hand. In the interests of full disclosure I make similar offers to males, though few take me up on it. They just give me a manly grimace and we bond, albeit briefly, over life’s little burdens.

      Dysfunctional relationships are not the result of feminism; if a man finds his female spouse treating him like the kids then perhaps its time to have a deep and meaningful about mutual respect, equality and so-on. Just a suggestion, individual economy may vary.

      I see the evolution of mankind as this, we walked on two legs, tamed fire, perfected the wheel; then a whole lot of stuff happened, some of it pretty exciting, and the next landmark was man mopped the kitchen floor without being nagged for three days beforehand and without feeling emasculated.

    • Jana says:

      11:04am | 30/11/10

      Two thumbs up for a rational and level-headed comment. I like your style. Thanks man.

    • truth moment says:

      09:03am | 30/11/10

      I can’t help but think that the main negative with feminism is the birthrate. If feminism leads to a birthrate below replacement level, than it’s unsustainable as a concept. Although, mass immigration could make up the difference in population - so, I guess, feminism is ok but only if you believe your culture is worthless.

    • Ava says:

      09:09am | 30/11/10

      I feel polluted just reading this. If you really were anti-feminist you wouldn’t be expressing an opinion in a public sphere because, pre-feminism, women were seen and not heard. You should thank all the feminists for the fact that you even have a platform to express yourself (and most likely get paid for it) rather than sitting at home waiting for a man to marry you so you can move out of your parent’s home. Feminism gave you your independence don’t blame it for the fact that you’re dissatisfied with the problems in modern society.

    • aliquis says:

      10:52am | 30/11/10

      “Is it becoming unacceptable in our society for women to rely on men and take pride in abilities defined as gender roles?”

      No, it is becoming impossible. If you want to own a home and have a family, you’d better hope you husband is earning enough to cover all bases.

      I am completely supportive of women living as housewives and it is a shame that there is a stigma attached to this as you say. I am an educated, independent woman, but if the time came for me to have children and my husband was earning enough that we wouldn’t struggle then I would stay at home. It is not an easy job, nor does it mean that a woman cannot maintain her intellect.

      Conversely, I don’t have a problem with men staying at home either. There is no ‘one-size-fits-all’ these days. We do what works for us.

    • Josephine says:

      12:09pm | 30/11/10

      I agree.
      I think family life has become so undervalued since the rise of the double income household. When I’m near death I doubt I will be thinking of that business deal I nailed or those projects at work I conquered. I think my proudest and most memorable moments will be the ones I had with family and friends. Life is about relationships.. seriously, why do we put so much focus on our working lives - do we really enjoy working more than playing? Wouldn’t we prefer to “work to live” instead of “living to work”. If I have children I want to make the most of it - at least the first five years. I don’t want to miss out on those precious moments and memories because I’m sitting at a desk in an office 40 hours per week. It’s only five years and a newborn will be old enough to go to school - That’s only one fifteenth of the average life span. I just don’t understand why so many parents put so much importance on our work life.

    • Cate P says:

      12:21pm | 30/11/10

      In fact if you are a parent, either stay at home or employed outside, it is your obligation to maintain and develop your intellect and those of your children.  One of the joys of children as they grow up is the conversation as their minds and thoughts and ideas develop.  It is a most wonderful experience and I hope you enjoy it sometime aliquis.  Building a close, robust and vigorous family life has many difficulties, but paradoxically is one of the sheer joys of existence and the career of a lifetime.  Its a shame to miss any of it by having to be in paid employment, though as you say it is becoming harder to get by on one income.

    • Lachlan says:

      12:48pm | 30/11/10

      I’m a 27 year old man, and this article makes me sick.  I am so tired of ignorant right wing loons blaming “feminism” on society’s ills.  Know what feminism is?  Equality.  It’s about giving women a public voice, where once they had none.  It’s about not boxing either sex into a role that they don’t necessarily fit. 
      I don’t know how to change a tire.  But my girlfriend does.

    • BK says:

      04:15pm | 30/11/10

      Feminism is also a contested concept and everything done in its name should be scrutinised.

    • Graham says:

      01:30pm | 30/11/10

      The problem isn’t equality; the problem is sameness. Women and men are biologically different. We’re not wired to act the same, but feminists have told men to be effeminate and women to be masculine. Most of the feminists I know are either bitter lesbians, or struggle to maintain relationships with men; precisely for the reasons described in Deida’s excellent book.

    • Sal says:

      02:16pm | 30/11/10

      Can I just point something out here. We are missing the point of feminism entirely. Clearly, the writer of this article knows nothing about feminism. Feminism is not about making men and women the same. Feminism is about creating a level of equality in society which will eventually see women being treated as people and not objects. In our little western bubble it’s easy to think feminism is about man hating and getting women to the top. We are forgetting one very important point here that for the majority of women around the world feminism is simply about not being beaten and raped or having your genitals sliced up as a baby with a rock.

      Until women are treated like human beings across the globe feminism will not cease to exist. Get out of your western bubble people and start talking about the real issues of feminism which are abuse, neglect and violence.

      Also, I feel very sorry for the woman who wrote this article. It must be hard being a female misogynist.

    • TK says:

      02:30pm | 30/11/10

      Some of the posts above would be hilarious if they weren’t . Have the women-are-subjugated-by-men brigade ever stopped to think that in modern western society, marriage and the family are institutions fundamentally prejudicialy to the independence and happiness of men? How many men get married in their twenties or thirties because it is the normal thing to do and end up leading lives monopolised by supporting other people, with no excitement or satisfaction save the feeling of satisfaction of being a workhorse at the whim and command of a wife and children. Feminists should concentrate on what is of fundamental importance - the liberation of women from grotesque regimes such as Saudi and Iran. It is insulting to women who do live their lives under such horrendous conditions for the feminist intelligentsia in the west to whinge about their own imagined oppression and disadvantages. Disadvantaged compared to who - the disabled? the destitute? the mentally ill? Have some perspective.

    • M says:

      03:05pm | 30/11/10

      I see many of you men are getting your back up, blamking the society’s downfall on feminism? So women are supposed to be relegated to the back, so that men can lead the family? What, you’re all feeling small because men are not the leaders anymore. Look at what men in political power have done? When religion placed men as the head of everything and women as degraded substances of nothing, none of you complained. How about the uproar then? If men were not what they were and still are, running on nothing but ego as to who should lead, then feminism needn’t have become. Both sexes are made differently, but each have their own strengths, meaning that neither should be degrading the other and both honouring the strengths of the other. Many of you say that society is now crumbling and blame the rise of feminism, how about waking up and saying myabe we should start something new. Let go of the old ways which has led to this state of affairs and start embracing the changes that need to be made in order to establish a newer society, one where both sexes are seen as important. Women are not just baby factories, thrown in the bak just so the man can plant his seed and then go out be bringing in the food. Women are efficient as hunter gatherers too. I would hate to live ina world where only men seem to see the outside and only men get to advance themselves in life and women, are just stifled, into silence before the death that await them.

      You want to talk about chivalry, why is it only the men who has to show it? Equality should be both ways. Chivalry is for both parties. Yes I love the old world charm, but that’s just the face of it. You can’t have the charm and not everything else. Create a new charm for the new world, where acts are of the soul and not of a rule.

    • Charlotte says:

      03:30pm | 30/11/10

      Aside from the fact that the author has obviously missed the *entire* point of feminism, let’s have a look at it anyway.

      I’m reminded of a powerful quote: “Men of quality do not fear inequality”.
      The problem isn’t that traditional gender roles are changing. The problem is that we still think that these traditional gender roles hold any relevance or significance today.  There’s no reason that a man should feel embarrassed picking up the kids from school, cleaning the house or doing the dishes. There’s nothing inherently feminine about these tasks except that we continue to reinforce them as such - particularly in Australia. Should a man feel insignificant and less manly completing these tasks, then he needs to take that up with his partner, but also realize that those things have to be done, by either person, to keep the house running, and why should one partner simply not have to do them? Likewise, there’s nothing inherently lacking in femininity in returning the work, or fixing the car. The sooner we can move on from these roles which are nothing more than societal pressure to conform, the sooner we can just be happy with our lives, and what we do in them. This article practically reads as a precursor to altering our society to be something like Saudi Arabia: women should only do ‘womanly’ things and men should only do ‘manly’ things. If you mess with this system, then pain and sadness will ensue…...WHAT NONSENSE. If you’re unhappy with how the tasks and role sin your relationship are split, that’s something for you and your partner to determine. But if it really comes down to ‘I don’t feel like a man doing/not doing this’, then perhaps the real issue is your adherence to nonsensical societal stereotypes.

    • Ali says:

      06:47pm | 30/11/10

      Thank you Charlotte! Fantastic response, absolutely agree with you smile

    • Anna says:

      01:03pm | 01/12/10

      I couldn’t agree more.  Well put Charlotte!

    • Paul Horn says:

      05:30pm | 01/12/10

      Does that also extend to men wearing dresses or trying to grow breasts? Are they also “non sensical societal stereotypes”?
      You are completely off key here Charlotte.

      Through every age men and women have held completely different roles in society which were absolutley critical to that societies survival. In absolutely no society have women assumed the aggressor role, ie did the hunting and fighting while the males cared for children and foraged for food. 

      So what does that tell you? It is only because we live in a highly industrialised community invented and maintained exclusively by the male gender that women have become truly free from any societal obligation.

      I once accompanied a feminist lady who banged on about how she did’nt need any mans protection! While walking back to the car two blokes spilled out of a pub and onto the footpath directly in front of her trying to tear each others throats out. I was amazed how quickly she jumped behind me. That put an end to the histrionics that night!

      As long as you ladies are more than happy to get called up to the front line and be happy to endure the horrors of fighting I am more than happy top give you the front seat.

      I just hope to God that your face is looking at the pointy end of my weapon as I know my chances of survival will increase exponentially!!! I know I won’t hesitate to pull the trigger.

      The more feminists we can force on to the front line in the next great conflagration the greater the chances of more men surviving. Do your duty ladies.

      Funny how the sufragettes never screamed and shouted about their right to be shot to smitherines in the stinking trenches of World War 1.

      I suspect few femininsts will shout for that right today either!

    • Ali says:

      04:25pm | 30/11/10

      Josephine, what a terrible article.

      I can tell you that I would not be satisfied as a stay at home mum. Although working as a mother presents challenges, I would rather face those than live at home being resentful when my husband leaves for work. My mother worked when I was younger and I didn’t suffer because of this.

      Further, my husband is an extremely ‘masculine’ man, he plays rugby and loves a beer with the blokes. That said, he is very hands-on and does cook with an apron on and take care of the kids. And this doesn’t make him less ‘manly’ - how offensive - it makes him awesome.

      Your argument about there being a ‘ravisher’ and a ‘ravishee’ is pathetic, and attempts to pigeonhole human sexuality. I know plenty of men who are the ravishee rather than the ravisher. I know plenty of couples who swap between dominant and submissive in the bedroom. Who are you, or anyone else, to challenge people’s sex lives because of your own beliefs about gender? Men and women are not ‘polar opposites’ in the bedroom because there are a whole RANGE of sexual behaviours that are completely normal and transgress the male/female dichotomy.

      My husband and I are a team. To me, this is what feminism is. Our roles are decided within our family, depending on who is most able or who has the interest/time. I’m sorry that Dave’s wife speaks to him like he’s an idiot - but that could either be because she’s a cow, or because he does nothing around the house and she’s had a gutful. To use this one example and say, “Obviously, feminism isn’t working’, just blows my mind, particularly as all we hear is Dave’s perspective and only a titchy bit of the story.

      And oh my goodness, ‘The search for love is the priority for the feminine’ - someone pass me a bucket! Thank you for simplifying that for me! And here I thought that my priority (MY priority, not necessarily yours) is to live a fulfilled life, both in terms of my career and my relationships!

      Honestly, I am so disappointed in this article. Thank goodness I have a ‘masculine’ (who friggin’ cares anyway - he’s married with children! Even if he was the biggest wuss out, he’s happy!) husband who would read this article and roll his eyes so hard they would nearly fall out of his head. And thank goodness that the people that I associate with have slightly more enlightened views.

      In conclusion, Phooey.

    • Jac says:

      04:52pm | 30/11/10

      There is no one size fits all when it comes to relationships and much of what we feel comfortable with comes from our own strengths/ weaknesses and how we have been brought up. One thing that helps our happiness level is to be needed. A man needs a woman to bear him babies and after that he needs to be needed to help raise them. It is sad when families breakdown and dad’s step away because the mum can seemingly do it all.

    • Dave L says:

      06:47pm | 30/11/10

      The best relationships are those where each partner possesses skills that complement each other. Sometimes you see couples who compete on all levels such as career, who’s the better parent etc. personally, it wouldn’t worry me if my lady wanted to be Prime Minister or a CEO of a top20 company as long as she is happy and it’s not taking too much time away from me. Spending more time with their families is something that both men and women should do.

      I agree that men are becoming more metrosexual and i’m sure that these people will be the first to go in the event of a natural disaster or conflict. New Orleans showed us just how fragile society is. For this reason, and many more, its just not a good idea to spend you life as a male, having radox baths and waxing your chest. people depend on you boys. I do all of my own cooking, cleaning etc but i also have a whole lot of life skills which mean that i can protect my family or put up shelves if the need arrises. Family is the most important thing in life, everything else comes second

      Some men (?) let women turn them camp. If Dave showed more balls initially he wouldn’t be taking so much crap from his wife now. And that is the truth of the matter. You treat people the way that you want to be treated and show no tolerance to being treated in any other way.

      Thank you for your article. Anyone who thinks that men aren’t becoming less masculine should open their eyes at all the skinny jeans wearing, hair straightening kids floating around in this current crop of recent school leavers. I would rather have cut my toes off then get around in that kind of get up at the same age ten years ago.

    • Zac says:

      08:40pm | 30/11/10

      Feminists can sing praises about the goodness and greatness of feminism till cow comes home But the truth is: “feminism is an ideology built on “HATE”, yes hatred of man and anything to with men”. Any ideology built on hate will self destruct. My wife has not even a touch of feminism and we will make sure to let our girls know from real life examples what feminism is all about.

      By the way here are some quotes from leading feminists that will expose the real agenda of feminism.

      “The nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.”—Linda Gordon

      “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”—Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

      “We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.”—Robin Morgan

      “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.”
      —Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

      “The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things.”

      —Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

      “Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”—Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

      “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.”—Andrea Dworkin

      “Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.”—Andrea Dworkin

      “In my own life, I don’t have intercourse. That is my choice.”—Andrea Dworkin

      “Q: People think you are very hostile to men.
      A: I am.”—Andrea Dworkin

      “Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice.”—Ti-Grace Atkinson

      “When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression.”—Sheila Jeffrys

      “The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.”—Sharon Stone; Actress

      “The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.”—Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

      “All men are rapists and that’s all they are”
      —Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

      “Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.”
      —Germaine Greer.

      “All men are good for is ****ing, and running over with a truck”.

      Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.

      “Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence.”
      —Judith Levine; Authoress

      “If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal—a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students—I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment…of persuading students that women are oppressed”
      —Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.

      “Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.” (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.

    • Peta says:

      12:43pm | 01/12/10

      Yes! Let’s cherry pick quotes from various individuals claiming to represent such a massively broad movement as feminism. It proves so much! Every woman claiming to be a feminist is obviously a man hating machine wanting to take over the world!

      Give me a break. Feminism is whatever the hell you want it to be.

      “My wife has not even a touch of feminism and we will make sure to let our girls know from real life examples what feminism is all about.”

      So, you’re saying your wife is basically your home-making property? That all of her daily decisions are made by you and she has no free will? If not, sorry to say dear, she has a ‘touch of feminism’ to her.

    • Zac says:

      12:09am | 02/12/10

      Yes! Let’s cherry pick quotes from various individuals claiming to represent such a massively broad movement as feminism. It proves so much!>>>

      Peta, I have listed the quotes from 16 different and leading feminists/source (as described towards the end). They are not your average Janes - “various individuals” (as mentioned in your comment), they are leading and influential feminists who have over the years brain washed women and socially engineered society. In short they are the “high priestess” of feminism. I’ll let the widely read Punch readers to make up their mind….

      Like you claim feminism is NOT - “whatever the hell you want it to be.” It is a well defined man/family/society hating ideology.  When feminism is exposed for what really it is “whatever the hell you want it to be.” is a good escape route from accountability and scrutiny.

      Yes!!!! Feminism is built on the foundations of HATE and I stand by that.

      So, you’re saying your wife is basically your home-making property? That all of her daily decisions are made by you and she has no free will? If not, sorry to say dear, she has a ‘touch of feminism’ to her.>>>

      Few years ago she was the stay at home family builder and I was the away from home (for few hour$$$) family builder. Her goal has never been Feministic - “I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.”—Andrea Dworkin

      FYI, now she is a high $$$ earning family builder wife and mum to our kids. In the near future she is planning and really looking forward to be a stay at home family builder and also contribute to society. But is feminism about choice or free will? Let’s hear from leading feminist - “Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.” (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.)

      So what does todays’s young women think about feminism….

      In researching my book, The Noughtie Girl’s Guide to Feminism, I spoke to many women in their twenties and thirties about feminism, asking if they were feminists. I was struck by just how many began their sentences with the words “I’m not a feminist but …”

      Ellie Levenson, Author of ‘The Noughtie Girl’s Guide to Feminism’.

      Should I say more.

      Let readers decide if the following Leading Feminists represent Feminism.

      1) Linda Gordon, professor of History at NYU

      2) Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor, On Dec. 31, 2001, the Feminist Majority Foundation, run by president Eleanor Smeal, assumed ownership of Ms. through Liberty Media for Women, LLC. A consortium of feminists—including Marcia Gillespie and Gloria Steinem, as well as businesswomen, students, philanthropist, and activists—had been publishing Ms. under Liberty Media since 1998. Gillespie and Ms. co-founder Gloria Steinem

      3) Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

      4) Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

      5) Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

      6) Andrea Rita Dworkin was an American radical feminist

      7) Ti-Grace Atkinson is an American feminist author.

      8) Sheila Jeffreys is a lesbian feminist scholar and political activist

      9) Sharon Stone; Actress

      10) Sally Miller Gearhart is an American teacher, feminist, science fiction writer, and political activist.

      11) Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

      12) Germaine Greer: widely regarded as one of the most significant feminist voices of the later 20th century

      13) “All men are good for is ****ing, and running over with a truck”.

      Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.

      14) Judith Levine (born 1952) is an American author, journalist, civil libertarian and co-founder of the National Writers Union, a trade union of contract and freelance writers, and No More Nice Girls, a group dedicated to promoting abortion rights through street theater. She is a board member of the National Center for Reason and Justice and the Vermont chapter of the ACLU.

      15) Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.

      16) Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.

    • R says:

      09:02pm | 30/11/10

      This is pure nostalgia. And, if you read further comments on how much the author purports she’s going to love motherhood, idealism.

    • Servaas says:

      10:47pm | 30/11/10

      Great article. I see some of the comments state that it is a pro-male article but I beg to differ on that one. It is as much pro-female as it is pro-male. It is a call to restore both sexes to a place of functioning in areas of their strength and through which they will naturally contribute the most to their own family to start with. Sure there are certain women who will, and even should, function in the traditionally male areas of society but I’m totally for not calling two different beings with different inherent strenghts and weaknesses, created to function together, one and the same thing.

      And also, a house wife and mother is one of the most crucial jobs in any country, especially at specific ages of the kids. Kids don’t have it easy with both parent less involved nowadays.

    • Bev says:

      08:33am | 01/12/10

      This article is as offensive as it is misguided.

    • Becky says:

      09:06am | 01/12/10

      I agree with Bev. Has Josephine read the Feminine Mystique. It’s not true that women of the 1950s were happy housewives, they were spaced out on valium, man!

    • Caroline says:

      10:54am | 01/12/10

      What a terrible, backward and misguided article. It is completely unsubstantiated, and based on two people’s outdated opinions rather than actual research. And yes, I am aware that there are countless ‘scientists’ out there who find daily evidence proving that men and women are intrinsically different, and that women need men to look after them because of their frontal lobe is smaller or some such nonsense.

      Gender and its roles are PURELY constructed by society and those in power: i.e. Men. It is widely recognised that those who have power want to hold onto it in any sense - and what better way to do that than bonding together against an entire sex, and feeding the world nonsense about how women are, and I quote from you, Josephine ‘suppressing traditional feminine characteristics like elegance and fragility to take on high power careers and step into male dominated roles’.

      Seriously. And how can you assume a woman is happy to be at home, staring at four walls all day, cleaning the dishes and waiting for the kids to come back from school so she can make her dear, masculine husband a gourmet dinner, clean it all up all over again (can’t ask the husband for help, oh no. That’s like speaking to a dog, apparently.) And Becky, thank you for pointing that out. I suppose even if Josephine HAS read that remarkably depressing book, she would still say it’s because the women weren’t happy with the AMAZING life they led at home, full of luxury and freedom. And that is what it was the ‘problem that has no name’, because, really, how can a woman want more than to stay at home, be fragile and elegant and dote on her kids and husband?

      How can you claim that

    • Marty says:

      02:57pm | 07/12/10

      Caroline,

      Please read the article again. I think you totally missed the point.

      Rather than promoting the suppression of women’s freedom as you have wrongfully and fictitiously imagined, the purpose of this article is to invoke the thought of how the feminist movement has and is effecting the dynamic and polarity between men and women as a whole.

      Notice the many questions that Josephine poses throughout her article.
      Questions like “But is it making couples happier?”  and “Would we be happier if more of us accept that men and women are not equal? “
      These are not statements Caroline! They are in actual fact thought provoking questions, to help you develop you own opinion of the issue more completely, and to create a discussion like this where we can better learn from each other to ultimately become more accepting of different people’s points of view.
         
      Josephine actually states at one point in her article “Feminism has achieved victories for women” Did you read this part?

      You call Josephine and Charlie Teo’s opinions outdated, how can that be when these opinions are held by people who live today? right now actually! A complete contradiction really. The thing about opinions are that people are entitled to them, just like you are entitled to yours, however yours would have more weight if you first read the article properly then responded in a more polite and mature fashion grin

    • Peta says:

      12:33pm | 01/12/10

      Josephine, what are you doing writing an article? Shouldn’t you, by your own logic, be avoiding such things? Don’t overstretch your feeble female mind so, why not instead bake a cake for the kids?

    • Josephine says:

      11:56pm | 01/12/10

      Thanks for your comment Peta. However I think you have missed the point of the article. I never said women should not work. In fact I said ín the article “I dont think women should surrender their careers all together”. My point is about valuing traditional roles instead of devaluing them to pursue a career. Why put career in front of family is what I’m asking. Because isn’t being there for the family a more important role than BOTH parents spending an 8 hour day worshipping a brand name? Also, I don;t believe I should be “avoiding such things” as writing and I think it is intriguing that you suggested this. If you are implying that this is hypocritical, I did not write the article as part of my job nor did I get paid for it.

    • R says:

      07:01pm | 02/12/10

      Wait til you have a family to make these claims - and don’t make them for everyone. The reality of having children - being a mum and maybe a wife - is very different from what you think it’s going to be.

    • Krista says:

      02:56pm | 03/12/10

      Well, it’s not worth a cent, so whether you got paid for it or not, you’d have received pittance.

    • Krista says:

      02:56pm | 03/12/10

      Well, it’s not worth a cent, so whether you got paid for it or not, you’d have received pittance.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      05:21pm | 03/12/10

      What a polite bunch Punch readers are.

    • Em says:

      02:32pm | 01/12/10

      Listen to all of you QQ-ing about the opposite sex. I think many of you would be happier if you were gay/ lesbian.

    • q says:

      03:40pm | 01/12/10

      thanks josephine, for making me feel really smart today.

    • smith says:

      04:17pm | 01/12/10

      But you see, only a person with no clue what feminism IS, would claim to be “anti-feminist”, and this is why this article has no effect on me. You are no loss to us, girl. (oh and my relationship is just fine, thankyou)

    • Alisha says:

      03:27am | 02/12/10

      Dear antifeminist, to understand what change feminism has brought into millions of women’s lives, you need to come out of that privileged shell of yours. You have a choice buddy but do not exercise your choice while abusing the others who got no such privilege. To understand what it means to be a wife/mother with no economic independence, you need to explore your world. Go to the villages in Asia, pick any country in the African continent and you will realize how women silently suffer violence by their “traditional” husbands. Why focus on third world , do some basic research (without the help of neurosurgeons please) in countries like United States and Australia. Common sense my friend. Human beings are no saints, if you got no economic independence, chances are high, you suffer in relationship. Gender roles? What are they? Who created them? Since you talk of several surveys, I can also tell you about the surveys done in some asian countries where men openly state that they are unable to shoulder the weight of the “provider and protector”. Get your statistics right my friend.

      A young feminist

    • Zac says:

      09:34am | 02/12/10

      Alisha,

      I would be very interested in unbiased research and proofs that shows economic independance will solve violence against women/wife/mother?

      Why focus on third world , do some basic research (without the help of neurosurgeons please) in countries like United States and Australia. Common sense my friend. Human beings are no saints, if you got no economic independence, chances are high, you suffer in relationship. Gender roles? >>>

      1) In very affluent countries like Australia and United States where women are economicaly independant, how come many are still the victims of domestic violence?

      2) Your theory of “economic independance” is offering two solutions to women i.e, deliverance from - “domestic violence” and the so called “suffering relationship gender roles”. Can you substantiate your theory? If not it will remain a feminist utopia?

      3) If we go with your theory of “Feminist Economic Independance”, women should be non-violent. However the truth of the matter is: “Male domestic violence victims is on the rise”. Why is that the case? More supporting material below:

      About one-third of domestic violence victims treated in Australian hospitals are men, according to a 2004 study by Dr Peter Stuart, director of emergency medicine at Lyell McEwin Hospital in Adelaide.

      Women have overtaken men as aggressors in relationships says British academic

      A study based on an analysis of 34,000 men and women by British researcher John Archer, professor of psychology at the University of Central Lancashire has indicated that women are more violent than men.

      Professor Archer, who has been analysing domestic violence studies and victims’ reports from the UK and the US since 1972 announced his findings in an interview in November 2000 with Britain’s Independent on Sunday newspaper.

      “It’s a complex argument, but we do get more women aggressing against male partners then men against female partners”, Dr George said. “The view is that women are acting in self-defence, but that is not true - 50 per cent of those who initiate aggression are women”.

      The truth about domestic violence statistics

      A survey by Bruce Heady and Dorothy Scott of Melbourne University and David De Vaus of La Trobe University exposes the feminist lie that only women are victims of domestic violence. 

      The survey of 1643 persons found that men are assaulted more frequently than women in domestic situations.

    • zoe says:

      09:04am | 02/12/10

      Wow, Josephine, you’ve copped a lot of flak for this.  While I don’t necessarily agree with everything you’ve said (I do love to see my man in an apron and cooking dinner, in no way does this emasculate him), you brought up some good points.

      When I am criticised by other women for being a stay at home mum when I am called a parasite or a leech for not having my own income (only ever by other women) then that makes me angry, because that says to me that yes we have a choice but only if we take the career option.  The people in my life that I am most accountable too are my husband and my children.  This does not mean that I’m some downtrodden oppressed woman, but that I happen to value my relationships more than what society expects of me.

      @Alisha - if feminism was still about helping those women in 3rd world countries (and by the way have you even been there or are you just relying on the media) then maybe I would trust the cause but when it becomes about vilifying choices of family over career which is what happens at least here in Australia then I don’t want a bar of it.

    • Zac says:

      01:13pm | 02/12/10

      zoe,

      The people in my life that I am most accountable too are my husband and my children.

      Can’t agree more!  Way better than feminist utopia.

    • Louise says:

      09:44am | 02/12/10

      What nonsense. Any man who feels wearing an apron or helping with the dishes is emasculating clearly has no very great confidence in his masculinity.
      I want a partner, not a protector. That, to me, is far more romantic than being trapped by financial dependence.

    • Blake says:

      02:02pm | 02/12/10

      The feminism movement was important for women to be recognized as equal, but now younger people my age are realising equality doesn’t mean you have to be identical.
      Men and women are different.

      Equal, but different.

      Studies have shown for the past 4 decades womens overall happiness has been going downhill while mens happiness has increased slightly.
      I lot of women I know (my own mother included) wish they had’ve spent more time at home instead of working because ultimately spending time with their children made them happier than work ever could.

      Families need someone spending time with the children as well as someone bringing in the money. You can try to have the woman working and the man at home but evolution has made that a bad option.
      For the home life to be best you need someone who can see/smell when things aren’t clean, know which food is off, be able to juggle multiple things (washing, cooking and looking after the kids all at once) as well as keeping the kids happy.
      Evolution has definitely equipped women to handle this better.
      According to studies women are better at noticing colour as well as having a more acute sense of smell. Some say this is so they could know when food is ripe but it also comes down to knowing when things are dirty. I’m quite sure I’m not the only man to have a lady friend or even a mother telling me something is dirty or smelly and me physically not being able to notice.
      This means when a woman comes home from work the man can think the house is clean but the woman gets angry because she can see all the stuff he can’t.

      Furthermore brain chemistry is different, female brains are better at multitasking. Us mere men can focus on one task at a time, do it awesome, but not think about other things while it’s going on.
      Great for a work environment, not so much for looking after a family.

      I know lots of girls my age wanting nothing more than to raise a family.
      Our parents showed us how bad things can get, very few of us have parents living together, and we don’t want that for our children.

      You can have all the choices you want, you can have all the equality you want, but if you want happiness for you and your family, sometimes you should focus on what you’re best at.

    • Marissa says:

      02:06pm | 03/12/10

      my 22 year old boyfriend did not even know what “Chivalry” meant the other day when i told him he had none!

      i appreciate what was sacrificed but look at what’s it’s costing us now! i think it’s gone a bit far. in my relationship, we decide things together although i’m often likely to go with his decision. i cook dinner for him and if i go to his place and it’s untidy - i will tidy it up.

      He often pays for outings and likes to be the one to drive us places.

      he may never open the door for me but he would kick one down to find the person that ever hurt me.

    • Erin says:

      02:22pm | 03/12/10

      The whole argument was f*cked from the very beginning.

      As another poster said, equal doesn’t mean same.  I am different from a man.  My reproductive organs are on the inside, his on the outside.  He has more testosterone and thereby bigger muscles than me.  Unfathomably, things I find insanely boring interest him (such as cricket).  We are different and given what a massive pain in the a$s I can be, I am glad of it.  I in turn am different from other woman and he different from other men. 

      It shouldn’t be about making us the same, but recognising that despite our differences we both have equal rights to be respected and participate in society.  Its about giving respect to “womens work” and the people who perform it, be they male or female.  Its about saying that we all get a fair deal.

      There are assholes of all colours and creeds as well as genders!  Some women treat men like crap.  Some men treat women like crap.  Some people need to be just locked in a cave from birth so that their self righteous, parochial attitudes dont drag the rest of us down. 

      To each their freaking own.

    • Pedestrienne says:

      04:14pm | 03/12/10

      I am a feminist. A very happy feminist who is studying full time toward her chosen career. I am a privileged white cisgender heterosexual woman. I have a male partner. Because I am a feminist I expect that in future should we have children we will work something out, and depending on our work situations maybe he will stay at home, maybe I will. Because I am a feminist, I don’t expect him to conform to stereotypical hegemonic masculinity, nor do I pressure him to do so. Because I am a feminist, when I am qualified as a nurse, I will strive to never press norms onto my patients, to never assume things about them based on appearances. Because I am a feminist I have learnt much about myself, about the world around me and how I can take steps to be more appreciative and respectful of others.

      With that said, I respect that Asher feels feminism is not for her. Fine and dandy. But that is her choice. To me, feminism is about choice for all, and wanting it abolished means wanting your choices forced onto others. Not cool.

    • Cat says:

      04:23pm | 03/12/10

      To question whether “changing gender roles” is a source of many of the worlds ills is quite frankly a bit daft - we don’t have any sound data for comparisons to the past, but by gosh you would think common sense dictates that had it been so bloody fabulous we wouldn’t have pushed so hard to change it!

    • Zac says:

      06:51pm | 03/12/10

      Cat,

      I guess common sense dictates that pushing it so hard to change “gender roles” should have made it bloody fabulous by now. Have a look…....

      A survey by Bruce Heady and Dorothy Scott of Melbourne University and David De Vaus of La Trobe University of 1643 persons found that men are assaulted more frequently than women in domestic situations, as the tables below reveal.

      Per cent assaulted by their partners in the past 12 months 1996/97. Survey of 804 men and 839 women

      % experiencing this type of assault

      Type of assault           Men Women

      Slap, shake or scratc   5.1% 3.2%

      Hit with fist or something in hand, or thrown 4.1% 2.5%

      Kicked 2.1% 1.4%

      Any type of assault (one or more of the above) 5.7% 3.7%

      Table 4. Injury and pain due to assaults (N=1643). Australia 1996/97

      % Victims

      Type of assault Men Women

      Injured, needed first aid 1.8% 1.2%

      Needed treatment by a doctor or nurse 1.5% 1.1%

      Pain as bad as hitting thumb with a hammer, or worse 1.9% 1.9%

      Called the police or other government authority 1.3% 1.7%

    • Truther says:

      05:10pm | 03/12/10

      Feminism is just another communist tactic to divide and conqueror. Just like Multiculturalism, white vs ethics, church vs atheists, slavery, witch burning, women vs men. You people need to read into Frankfurt school, and see how they have attacked have subverted western society for their long term interest against the communist enemy’s, who are nation states, white men, the church and Jesus Christ. We are dealing with an intellectual enemy that hides in the shadows.

    • Paula says:

      08:37pm | 05/12/10

      Thank you Joesphine for providing me with such an excellent example of unsupported argument for my critical thinking classes. However, it’s such a shame that you didn’t take the time to explore your own comments in more depth instead of relying on unsubstantiated flippancy when discussing such an important issue.

    • Marty says:

      06:56pm | 06/12/10

      Hi Paula,

      You sound angry. Want a Hug?

    • Marty says:

      09:22pm | 06/12/10

      Just politely Paula, I would like to point out that Josephine (not Joesphine) did actually support her “opinion” (not argument) with many references including 3 surveys (Australian Bureau of Statistics (2007), The Annual Child Care and Workforce Participation Survey, British survey of 2000) and also few professional opinions. I don’t think the opinion of a world renowned neurosurgeon is one to be sniffed at when commenting on biologically effected physiological tendencies.
      I must also point out that you did not support your objection to Josephine’ s article with a single counter claim/comment which is exactly what you are wrongfully persecuting Josephine for in the first place. You entire comment was just one long impolite condescending ridicule, most probably representative of some deep seeded issues you may need to work through. These issues could possibly caused by overindulging in extreme feminist views at the expense of you core values.
      You say that it is a shame that Josephine did not take the time to explore her comments in more depth. How about specifically identifying theses comments and why they are incorrect? After that, please provide your referenced information you have found to support your objection.
      Some person advice for you also, I would be careful before you use this as an example for your “critical thinking classes” as an unsupported argument, as this is in actual fact an opinion piece.

    • The egg man says:

      12:01pm | 16/12/10

      Paula says: 08:37pm | 05/12/10

      pot meet kettle….

    • David says:

      03:31pm | 09/04/12

      are you serious? lol

    • Leigh says:

      06:06pm | 06/12/10

      Great work Josephine! the people who do not understand or attempt to understand your well researched and clearly written words, are a product of the same society which you are questioning. They beleive that Nutra Grain is good for them and that the government would never do anything which would hurt them or put them at risk. Your story is the tip of the iceberg (or illusion) in regards to mis-management of societies values. You are quite aware. Congratualtions for seeing through the veil. Did you take the blue pill?

    • Tia says:

      01:53pm | 09/12/10

      Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe or how to live their life. She has an opinion, there’s nothing wrong with that.
      However, I do disagree with many points of the article. For one, I don’t think a perfect relationship needs a “ravisher/ravishee”. By this, we are just standardizing every couple out there.
      I know plenty of husbands who are happy to be at home and raise their children, cook, clean while their wives work and vice versa. I honestly do not think it affects their ‘masculinity’ (I honestly hate that word sometimes). I feel like we need to stop putting labels on what women and men ‘should’ be doing. Considering that the average australian/australian family are having monetary issues. We all can’t afford exactly to have a choice.
      And for the women who are happy to be in ‘traditional’ marriage in all aspects, well good for them. As long as it is truly their personal choice and are happy to live that way.
      My only annoyance is that when people believe their opinion is the only right one. People forget that’s all it is. Just an opinion, not law.

    • Ben Mills says:

      04:30pm | 14/12/10

      This article and the responses are toxic and being used as nothing more than for a bunch of men and women to spew their vile misogyny and ignorant sexist beliefs.

      We need feminism still becauAse women still aren’t being paid the same as men for the same work across the board, domestic violence is rampant, rape still occurs and objectification of women as sex objects or incubators is still happening. A few responses have said that there should be a push for fairness, not equality. I’d like to know what the hell is fair about this?

      Finally, how the hell are men and women different? Biologically we have different chromosomes but that only produces physical characteristics - and even those vary greatly in both sexes. Everything else, masculinity and femininity etc is nothing but socially learnt behaviours! There is no gene that makes all women want to be loved, wear make up, act submissive and be ravished; just like the is no gene that says men should learn how to be handymen, emotionally distant, sporty or ravishers.

      Apply a little intelligence please.

    • The real world says:

      02:40pm | 21/04/11

      Then there are guys like me who surrender their balls to no one and since childhood had one simple requirement for women: OBEY.

      Real men aren’t extinct, just rare, but there is a reemergence beginning, nature, like a sapling, is breaking through the concrete of the artificial world of mans decadent self deception and reasserting its unavoidable and imminent supremacy.

      Join me boys and girls in the reemergence of REAL men and women = humans, and separate from those whose paradigms have made them aliens upon this planet. I am Wolfman Kayl, the Hammer of Patriarchy.

    • Demi says:

      11:49pm | 26/05/11

      You say we are “suppressing” traditional female roles like “elegance and fragility” but that’s one of the many generalisations in your piece. I’m not elegant…I’m clumsy and can be messy and have bad posture..and I am not at all graceful. And of fragility…I have my dad’s shoulders, can bench 50kg and am overall quite strong. I’m not gonna break any time soon. Has feminism caused this? No, biology has.

    • Sarah says:

      04:23pm | 05/07/11

      “The mission is the priority of the masculine”  Nah, sorry. Human beings as a whole prioritise the mission. Everyone needs to find meaning in their lives.Most women I know look for meaning, just like most men I know. Don’t try to knock that basic human need out of women - because you can’t ever succeed.

    • brendan says:

      10:53am | 29/07/11

      The solution has become the problem as with most isms(communism,socialism etch).A cynical view of feminism is that it was a government plot to broaden the tax base.In my experience ,and given i have raised my children after a vitriolic family court battle,feminism has achieved much for women at the detriment of others.Unfortunately the line from that Joe Jackson song encapsulates how i feel’’ If there is war between the sexes there will be no people left’‘.It is very hard after you have been on the recieving end of bitter acrimony from a woman to not be judgmental but as i hold the relationship between lovers in the highest regard i maintain hope.Fortunately for me , given i was a single ‘‘mum’‘, my best friends are women.

    • Angie says:

      10:33am | 03/09/11

      wow! what a load of bigotry, it almost makes me feel embarrassed to be female, to think that woman haven’t been carrying the load sense Adam and Eve is a loud of crap, woman have had to be tough in times past, being tough is not just a male trait, I mean really the 50s style woman is not the model of what woman were are and will be, think about what woman used to have to do, all while bearing children, walk miles to get water for their family, lots have had to do farm work, baking in the old days was you got up at like 3am and you didn’t go to bed until late in the night, look you want to know what a real man is, a real man doesn’t feel threatened by a woman who works, and you can still be a working woman and get ravished, that all depends on if your man is worth the salt he sweets out, and one more thing, it is so silly to assume men were more versatile before, like ok yea men have always had multiple skills in carpentry and auto mechanics.,  I cant believe this article could even be considered thought provoking,

    • Miranda says:

      12:06pm | 03/09/11

      I see what she is saying here and yes there are ‘psychological gender roles’ for men and women but this does not mean anyone has to submit to them just because they are ‘natural’.  As a lesbian, why should I have to stay at home And be a homemaker and a mother while I have a man work for me? I don’t even want children and I am a lesbian and I have ambitions of going to uni then going to another country to teach English.  What has se got to say about lesbians and gays or somewhere in-between?

    • Nepenthe says:

      11:45pm | 08/10/11

      “But in the process they’re becoming more like men. And men are becoming… well, less like men. “

      And what does that mean…exactly?

      What makes a “man?”

      What makes a “woman?”

      Because from my perspective, it’s a bunch of societal engineering that tells us one must do A and the other must do B and it’s, at heart, a bunch of phoney BS.


      “but could it be at the expense of femininity, chivalry and attributes of the opposite sex that instinctively attract us to each other?”

      Define femininity?

      Chivalry was a Knight’s code and it only applied to certain women during its heyday. Also?

      If you’re being “respectful” because someone is a certain thing (be it a certain gender/status/etc.), that’s not truly respect, now is it?


      ““This force of attraction is the dynamism that often disappears in modern relationships. If you want real passion, you need a ravisher and a ravishee.”

      This person doesn’t seem familiar with the concept of the Switch….


      “And women didn’t feel pressure to justify their existence with a career. “

      Because Gods know women don’t actually want fulfillment outside of the role of wife and/or mother….

    • Me says:

      10:59am | 15/10/11

      Lol what?
      THis is hilarious.
      You don’t actually believe this, right? sometimes it’s hard to tell

    • Will says:

      02:56pm | 28/03/12

      Since feminism was invented, nobody in the entire world has had sex because everyone is so confused about their gender identity and who to be attracted to.
      I need to find some high heels from somewhere, because I’m read to throw some!

    • Michelle Lensink says:

      03:02pm | 28/03/12

      Feminism is about providing choices, not about us all being the same, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of promoting diversity.
      Feminism also means different things to different people. Unfortunately to many of the authors above they would like to blame it for all sorts of ills in society. Do these people want to turn back the clock, deny women an education, the vote, the right to own property or make decisions about their children?
      Let’s grow up in this debate and accept that the shouldn’t be barriers to people based on their gender. That’s all that feminists have ever asked for.

    • Michelle Lensink says:

      03:02pm | 28/03/12

      Feminism is about providing choices, not about us all being the same, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of promoting diversity.
      Feminism also means different things to different people. Unfortunately to many of the authors above they would like to blame it for all sorts of ills in society. Do these people want to turn back the clock, deny women an education, the vote, the right to own property or make decisions about their children?
      Let’s grow up in this debate and accept that the shouldn’t be barriers to people based on their gender. That’s all that feminists have ever asked for.

    • Jim says:

      01:56am | 02/04/12

      “But if we allow men to reclaim some power, we women could do more to embrace our femininity.”

      You’re going to allow me to claim power? Give me a break.

    • Sally says:

      01:59am | 29/04/12

      “Instead, men are sporting aprons, doing their own ironing and pushing trolleys down supermarket aisles – roles that don’t exactly exude manliness.”

      I laughed out loud at that line.
      Coming from a ‘traditional’ background, most of the men I know would gladly trade the pressure of having to single handedly provide for a wife and family to do the dishes once in a while.

      Setting such narrow boundaries of what is Masculine and what is Feminine is unfair to both men and women.
      Men aren’t just moneymakers and women aren’t just baby machines.

    • Jim says:

      05:47am | 30/04/12

      I thought about this article a long time after first reading it. I decided that I prefer the scenario of two friends who rub genitals once in a while.  Josephine, your problems are just a few kinks in the fabric of evolution.  Things are moving quickly. I think you owe it to yourself to keep up.

    • Nai says:

      02:48am | 01/05/12

      All this article says to me is all men must be this way and all women must be that way. And all I want is the choice of which way I want my life to go.

    • lone_wolf says:

      03:32pm | 15/05/12

      ...And what consequences are you willing to pay for that choice?

      Its a scientific fact: For every action, there’s an opposite and equal reaction. Nothing is for free. Every change has a cost. Nature has a way of re-establishing a new equilibrium, once you disturb it. And you may not like what you get! Are you going to keep tampering with it until you get your way? (The more you tamper with society, the more you mess it up. Sooner or later, one ends up paying for it at a personal level.)

      Wanting to change things in favour of women will have a consequence on the whole scheme of things when men respond as a reaction. (You can’t expect men to stay with the old social contract, when women have amended all sorts of new conditions and have ripped things out of it to favour them.)

      It’s all about women. Yet, they chant “equality”? You say you want “choice”, so what is a man’s choice in all this? He is expected to do this and that at the request of women, while at the same time accept the label of a rapist, pedophile, woman beater, dog, pig, etc. Where is his contraceptive pill? Do you honestly think men will continue following this charade forever?

      Have a good, hard think why some of us males no longer want to get married and prefer to retreat away to our own hobbies or self development…No longer wanting to take part in society at all. No longer listening. No longer contributing. No longer wanting to fulfill the social contract of marriage and kids. No longer caring.

      One serious consequence will be men just giving up on society altogether…Then what are you going to do? (Have a good look what’s happening in Japan as males start to give up and want to live a quiet life for themselves. It has confused women, while the Japanese Govt is concerned with the long term economic effects on the country as a whole.)

      Question constantly asked:
      => “What do women want?”

      Men who dare to answer honestly:
      => “We don’t care any more. You have equality; affirmative action; a whole taxpayer funded department called Australian Government Office for Women; the media on your side; vibrators/dildos/other sex toys from around the World; sperm clinics and artificial insemination; child care benefits; and Family Law on your side. We are no longer needed. The Govt is your daddy, husband, and partner now…Go live your own life and don’t bother us ever again. Complain to someone who gives a cares.”

      The day that women will lose is the very day males stand in silence and answer the “What do women want?” question by turning their backs and walking to a non-Westernised, feminine woman. What are you going to do then? Make a new law to force all men to accept you as he tries to flee from you?

      My point is this: Are you willing to face and accept non-cooperation from men as a response to you getting what you want? What price are you willing to pay?

      Freedom also means responsibility and accountability. That is the price one pays. If not, chaos will eventually ensure. (Its not a question of “If?”. Its a question of “When?”)

    • Dan says:

      02:44pm | 24/05/12

      Not unequal, just different.

    • Dan says:

      02:44pm | 24/05/12

      Not unequal, just different.

    • Lee says:

      07:25pm | 29/05/12

      The writer of this article… in writing this are you not implying that you want passion in a man? And passion in relations to sex ?... Without the feminist movement, would you even be allowed to say you want sex at all without being villified? Without the feminist movement, women are objects, not desiring subjects. Men looked, and women made present themselves to be looked at. There was no desire to be the ravishee and if there was you probably couldn’t say it out loud. Men were ravishers and that was that.

    • Carly E says:

      12:19pm | 02/06/12

      I was going to detail my full response to the individual absurdities of Ms. Asher’s ‘argument’ but there are so many things wrong with it - sourcing, straw men, false juxtapositions, hyper simplification - that I’m taking the lazy way out and merely submitting my disdain for the record.  So spank me.

    • Holdyourselfaccountable says:

      06:10pm | 04/06/12

      Ray Graham 06:25am- so you do not sound unattractive with your vitriol against the Australian Woman that is purely based on your limited personal experience?  What - your wife?

      All women are different, just as all men are different.  I would be the first to admit that men are treated as the default parent by the Family Law System, if the mother after upteen warnings, does not give up her child. 

      You have a choice though mate.  If you hate being in your marriage so much then you can try out a myriad of options.  Ie counselling, posing ultimatums etc.  If all else fails - then divorce.  Apparently though, you choose to stay in the position that you are in.  Whose fault is that?  You have made a choice in putting up with her sh#t.  This is not a reflection on all Australian women.  It is a reflection of your own choice.

      We all make choices.  We all have to be accountable for them.  You my friend, need to hold yourself accountable for yours instead of putting the blame on ‘Aussie Women’.

    • Anna says:

      12:55pm | 05/06/12

      “Is it becoming unacceptable in our society for women to rely on men and take pride in abilities defined as gender roles?”

      Historically women were expected to take pride in their ability to be submissive, agreeable, attractive, tolerant, a good cleaner.

      Men were expected to take pride in their ability to be clever, powerful, successful, a good earner, pillars of the community.

      Ms Asher, you’re kidding yourself if you think that, historically, society valued these gendered abilities equally. They did not. These abilities were not considered equal – in terms of financial reward or social status.
      Hence the feminist movement.

      I don’t think your argument looks closely enough at the context in which gendered roles were constructed. Why would women want to race back into roles that, historically, afforded them very little power, status or financial independence? What … to be more attractive to a male partner?

      *sigh* That’s lame.

    • John says:

      08:08pm | 06/06/12

      The JEWEL OF CREATION are now coming into the limelight-the REAL WOMAN you are. Thanks Josephine Asher keep the light shinning as the world is covered in darkness and many are hypnotized with the lies and are like ZOMBIES the dead walking. Feminism are breeders of corruption.

    • Dave says:

      11:58am | 18/07/12

      This article is so absolutely spot on. The two things it didn’t highlight is that
      (a)  the net result is that women are more unhappy as a result than men are
      and
      (b) men have other chioces. Men can and do get women from other cultures that see menand women as different and complimentry.

    • Peter says:

      04:29pm | 07/09/12

      Josephine, very good article, well written, with good intriguing questions.

 

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