the left and the influx of migrant workers.

as someone who has left wing leanings. i feel to be accepted by political parties like, the socialist workers party, i have to swallow my growing concern at the massive influx of migrant workers into the country. i have worked in a dept where out of 140 staff, 5 were british. the rest mostly east european. the left are protesting about capitalism and its evils but strangly silent on this issue of big business encourging migrant workers into the country to take low paying jobs instead of paying people a decent wage to do these jobs, thus reducing costs and raising profits to re invest. the unions are silent and i feel that it all boils down to not wanting to be branded a racist, but i do feel the workers of this country are being forgotten about. views on this please.

I read somewhere, Guardian I think, regarding the enforcement of the minimum wage that a city the size of Birmingham has just eight (2009) NMW enforcement officers. I bet they have a hell of lot more Benefit Fraud investigators.

I wonder. In my experience there aren't a lot of those, either. But both things are equally fraud, and equally taking from those who can least afford to lose.

In answer to the OP - I agree. What else can I say?...

To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition. What you are suffering from is cognitive dissonance. The Frankfurt school's dominant morality teaches one thing (discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, sexual orientation, nationality, religion etc is pathological) your human nature another (your homeland is being transformed by an unaccountable ruling class without your consent being sought or granted). Discrimination in this context must surely include denial of the right to live where in the world you please.

If a business does not make a profit it closes, unless it can steal the profits of better run businesses via redistributive taxation. If the money brought in by employing an individual does not cover the cost of employment and cover liabilities etc, then that job will not be created.

The minimum wage system together with the possibility for those so inclined to play the entitlement system (are you a fool if you dont? - our ruling classes in the Lords and Commons are all up to it!, and as for the Banksters...) are destroying the moral structure of Britain for ordinary workers.

The state can not simply go on printing money to pay people to live on the dole whilst keeping its foot jamming the door open to those seeking a better life than Eastern Europe or the developing world offer. All systems that simply cant go on eventually end. How will our nation end up?.

"To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition"

No it isn't. However that is a convenient argument for those who don't want to pay the minimum wage.

"The state can not simply go on printing money to pay people to live on the dole whilst keeping its foot jamming the door open to those seeking a better life than Eastern Europe or the developing world offer."

The point is, that if it cracked down on immigrants working under-price, it might not need to pay out so much dole.

You say 'To oppose open borders is to be racist, by definition.' Why? I think it is quite possible to think of all races as equal but to want to protect our way of life. A friend of mine explains how the school she went to is now a no go area to white British people. Leicester is now 60% Muslim so I hear, and I'm sure that many other cities are not far behind.

Things are changing fast, and many of us are very uncertain of our children's future. The racist card is out of date, highly manipulative, and most of us feel insulted when accused because it shows a complete misunderstanding of the way we actually feel. I.e., we know that we live in a highly unstable world, we wish our governments would stop trying to save the world (LOL. What a mess they are causing everywhere they go) and we wish that we could feel a bit more optimistic about our children's future.

I used to think that it was wonderful to have a great diversity of cultures in Britain: Now, like many others I'm sure, I feel very afraid of the consequences of our naivety.

Mass immigration assets-strips the countries of origin, lowers wages and increases house prices and rents here, especially for poorer workers. Three-quarters of us believe that immigration has put too much pressure on health, education and transport.

Since 2004, the number of people from eastern Europe working here in Britain increased by 600,000. Over the same period, the number of unemployed young people here increased from 575,000 to more than a million. Last year, employment of British-born workers fell by more than 200,000 and employment of non-British-born workers rose by more than 200,000, to more than 4.1 million.

East European workers are more willing to work for lower wages: 89 per cent of them earned less than £400 a week, compared to 57 per cent of British-born workers. Many of the locals who compete to get low-skilled jobs are black or Asian, while the new immigrants are white.

Controlling immigration is not racist. The EU, the employers and the `left' all back the free movement of labour. The `left' claims that workers can't distinguish between immigration controls and racism, but the `left' defines immigration controls as racist, so they are the ones who cannot distinguish between immigration controls and racism.

Where are British workers supposed to work, if not in Britain? Who is supposed to do the jobs in Britain, if not British workers? No to the free movement of labour.
This is the Communist Party of Britain Marxist-Leninist position.

" Leicester is now 60% Muslim so I hear, and I'm sure that many other cities are not far behind."

Lol, why don't you look up the facts before you post such nonsense, it is a large south Asian community comprising of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs.

And last I read on the population of Muslims in this country it was 2million out of 60 million, approximately 10% of the Muslim population in this country are converts as well.

Take your daily mail 'Muslims are taking over England' somewhere else.

So long as you recoil and say 'I'm not racist but -' when opposing this global social engineering carried out by our ruling classes you have already conceded defeat. This is a class war, you dont have to be Marxist to recognise class conflict. Sean Gabb has a recent talk on youtube on the subject, and Ralph Raico puts Marxist class conflict theory in a the classical liberal context from which it was originally borrowed.

The Blair regime undertook the open door immigration policy to 'rub the right's nose in multiculturalism'; 'the right' in this context, are those whom new labour's students of Adorno would consider 'racist'. All those I know in the 'socialist workers' and the former 'revolutionary communists' approved of the policy. Blair himself is on the record as saying that it has enormously improved England. Many English people have married recent immigrants, these people (in my experience) especially are understandably repulsed by the idea of restricting numbers.

And yes, home trained engineers and doctors as well as secretaries and cleaners find themselves undercut in wages by new arrivals.

Mandelson IIRC has told the indigenous British unemployed to seek work elsewhere in the world, after all, he got a wonderful well paid job in Brussels despite the little scandals surrounding his departure from London.

K K, I'm so sorry, I meant Asian. Do you spend your entire life reading papers and posting in these forums?

I agree with you mostly but spare a thought for the instances that British workers do not want to do some jobs as well. I live in London and practically all the cleaners I have seen are European and of African origin, take aways are mostly Asian filled staff, I'm sure there are more examples as well.

Also I have seen documentaries where employers get more for their money when they hire non British workers as they try to impress more, I am a builder by trade and just the other day I met a polish builder who works for around two thirds what I charge and works around the job, which meant on this particular project he was up with his employers till 5am, I do not begrudge him at all, he works hard and he deserves his success (he drives an A4 which I'm a little jealous of), many a time people complain of being over priced by our British counterparts as compared to ethnics minorities who come and do the same job for much less.

Let's face it its a global economy and if we were running a business we would do as much as we can to make the most profit, admittedly some of us would be more considerate but very few of these kinds of business survive.

Apology accepted and no, but perhaps you should try reading other papers for a change

The figures aren't really relevant to the post anyway. Figures can be presented to prove almost any argument you choose, but a walk through almost any city will affirm the thrust of my post. Did you say you were Muslim bought up in Britain? Re the paper reading: I'm a very busy man.

Let's just say that we all live in very uncertain times, and the best thing we can do is to build as many bridges between us as possible. This is the only way forward. Anyway, I'll duck out of this discussion now because we've gone way off track. All the best to everyone in the discussion.

what? figures arent relavent! wasn't it you who posted that you heard leicester is about 60% muslim!!!

and now you say a walk through any city will affirm your post, well again, no it would not because the white population far out number all the non white minorities in the uk. please think before you post.

I merely raised a few concerns, then I apologised for getting my figure wrong, then I said that it didn't really matter that the figure was wrong.

The rest of that post, as well you know, is complete rubbish. I didn't even mention 'non-whites'!

It's a good job that the Muslim friends I have are decent people. People like you are not typical of the Muslim population - it is important that other people know this.

The short answer is that the modern British left betrayed the ordinary working man when it actively connived at the importation of vast quantities of what is effectively scab labour from overseas. Back in the 1920s the bosses shipped scabs in from overseas to break strikes, in the 1960s and 70s it was the unions who waved them in - and an excess of labour is always to the employer's advantage and always drives wages down. No surprise that we've not been anywhere near full employment for decades. How can there be jobs for all when you have no fixed limit on the number of people to be employed?
But as long as people are worried about being labelled "racist" then there's nothing they can do - because "racist" is the default label for anyone that opposes mass immigration (whatever race the immingrants happen to be).
No idea why the left sold us all out so badly ... some people say it was the Frankfurt school, others say bourgeois infiltration of the labour movement. Both seem a bit paranoid but how the hell else would you explain it?

No you apologised for saying Muslims instead of Asian, I put forward a post to rebuke your hearsay based post.

You then posted that a walk through almost any city will affirm the thrust of your post, that is to imply that Muslims (in your mind) are taking over the population, I merely replaced Muslims with non whites as there are other ethnic minorities that aren't Muslim, to illustrate how wrong you are.

Lastly you feel the need to tell everyone that people like me are indecent and not typical of the Muslim population. That tickled me. What have I said to give you that impression? At least you are consistent with making things up. It would seem that you prefer the Muslim that doesn't challenge anything you have to say. This isn't a popularity contest, stop patronising people by telling them what to think.

What? I don't know what on earth is going on in your head, but it really doesn't tie in with the conversation at all.

Listen, if this is your idea of an argument, then so be it. I'll leave you to it - I've had more productive discussions with 5 year old kids.

Non-whites? Are they those who spend time and cash on false tans? =)

you shouldn't worry about what's going on in my head but if you wish to continue to debate, give a rebuttal to my posts.

You have now raised another disturbing question in that why are you having more productive discussions with 5 year old kids?

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Making more foolish assumptions again....sigh

Your are obviously a loser who doesn't have the tools to back up anything he says

I'm dissapointed by this thread. Are we all too stupid and blind to see that blaming immigrants is not going to solve our problems...? More to the point, I suppose you think its ok for a Brit to be an immigrant in another country right? Maybe if we didnt spend so much time pointing the finger at immigrants we would realise that benefit fraud is a bigger issue, corporate tax evasion is a bigger issue, dodgy expense claims by those who lead our country are a bigger issue, irresponsible lending from our banks was a bigger issue, paying for drugs and alcohol for addicts who are entitled to it as part of their 'treatment' is a bigger issue. Ignorant and racist people will blame immigration for everything, no-one will hold their hands up and say, well actually all of that borrowing we did when we knew we couldn't pay it back could have somthing to do with our current problems. We live in a welfare state were people who cant be ar5ed, get paid for nothing, no wonder everyone wants to live here.... pfffftttttt play the blame game for as long as you want.

The simple answer would be for the UK to leave the EU , then the UK would not have to accept anyone from anywhere if it did not want to .

In a talk / panel show on RTE ( in Dublin ) on Monday night , a muslim man said his religion ( human rights ) was being denied to his son as no schools in the Dublin area were of the Muslim type ( most are R.C. and a few protestant ) , so this guy threatened the Irish Govt with the European court in Strasbourg .

The fact that ireland is in recession / bailouts ETC meant nothing to this guy who kept insisting that Muslim schools be built .

B Obama " I want to get American people back to work " - seen as fair and patriotic
G Brown " I want to get British people back to work " - seen as racist